Chapter 1: What time does the Morning Shootaround usually go live?
Welcome to the Morning Shootaround here on the Athletic NBA Daily. We're live on YouTube. If you want to join us, we're typically live around 1 o'clock Central Standard Time. Nobody lives Central Time, Andrew. What are you talking about?
There's a lot of people who live Central Time. Statistically, though, we use Eastern Time because most people live there.
Sure, but people understand. People understand time zones? I don't know if people understand time zones.
Let's see, Chicago, Denver.
Denver's Mountain Time.
Mountain Time? Oh, no. Mountain Time, yeah.
Anyways, who cares? But not even that big of a city. Listen, we're live right now. Okay, all right. We are going to do a mailbag today, so we appreciate questions from Twitter, from Blue Sky, and from where I'm going to start is our Discord. So we do have an Athletic NBA Daily Discord. You can find the link in the show notes of the podcast. And we would love to have you join us on our Discord.
Also, if you happen to be in the chat right now, you can ask questions in the chat, and we'll answer questions from there, too. We'll try to answer as many as we can today. Okay, this one comes from H. Folar Thorin. I don't know if that's how you say what you wrote, but that's how I'm saying it. Okay, he actually has three questions. Oh. What is your current favorite advanced analytics stat?
What is an example of it working? What is an example of it not working, like EPM or PER? S, what's your go-to right now?
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Chapter 2: What are the most interesting advanced analytics stats in the NBA?
This is if you ask Seth Partnow, who is, you know, well-renowned as like the head of like king of analytics. Like these catch-all stats are all bad. bad. I would say box plus minus, maybe like the real plus minus kind of gives you a sense from game to game and maybe week to week. But I think these catchalls are all bad, um, in defense of PR, which was at its time, one of the betters.
Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, what is my go-to? I don't necessarily have a go-to. I think EPM is good. The dunks and threes, uh, EPM is solid.
Um,
It has a good baseline. But again, truthfully, it's like a tool in the toolbox. It's never the entire toolbox. It's one thing you can use to validate and justify something that you're watching. But sometimes it will not match anything. And I speak as a guy who obviously watches a lot of basketball, but also can see impact on a basketball court.
and what some guys do that might not show up on the box score, that ends up not counting on EPM or any of these advanced metrics. So yeah, I don't think you can use any of them as like, hey, this is the one thing. I know there's a lot of guys who also love the Darko graph. You guys know the DPM Darko graph. That's fun. It's cool to look at. But again, how much are you really...
basing anything off of you know but there's people who live by it which i think is the dangerous thing not even dangerous we're talking about sports oh it's dangerous yeah it's dangerous online trust me it is i do like box plus minus i think it's generally pretty pretty good but especially when talking about the top, like the top three guys in BPM right now is Jokic, Shea, Giannis. Good job.
But then like Reed Shepard is 12th and he's had a nice season, but you can't tell me that Reed Shepard is a top 12 player in the NBA. Right. It's not, it shouldn't be used. You can't tell me that Michael Porter Jr. is the 19th best player in the NBA. Those are examples of how it's not working. But typically, I think... I use it more for the very best players in the league.
Rarely is there an error in the top four or five-ish. Four is Luka. I feel like that stat is doing a good job of capturing what's happening at the very top. It's when you get into... like the teens where it's like, yeah, I don't think Mikael Bridges is the ninth best player in the NBA this year. Yeah. So I think that to me, if I'm looking for MVP arguments, it's actually a good place to go to.
But if you're looking for who are the top 20 players in the league, it's actually kind of a bad stat to go to. Yeah.
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Chapter 3: How do advanced metrics impact player evaluations?
you're probably a decent player. Yeah. And you know, the game to game stuff is really, I actually think you learn more game to game than you do. Sometimes big picture stats about some of the players that aren't stars, you know, the role players, especially you, you get to see more of these flashes game to game. So I don't know. My favorite stat is really, it's like wins.
And that's the stat I care the most about. That's my catch all stat.
Yeah.
Hey, I've got a cool stat for you losers. It's wins. That's right. Talk about your Vorps and EPMs and all that. You know what I count? Wins. That's all we care about in OKC, too.
that's a good good place to start um i would hey let me plug seth's book the mid-range theory yeah because if this is interesting to you it's actually a very good and easy read and a nice primer for advanced stats for sure yeah He's going to send me a check for that.
Yeah, for you better. I would also just caution people about the... There's an efficiency differential number on cleaning the glass that tells you what these players look like on the court throughout the season. But there's some stuff where it's like...
chet holmgren's like a minus 1.4 yeah yeah like scotty barnes is like a minus zero point something that's like we know you have to be like really careful about those particular like big picture numbers because it's not telling you a story about the player it's telling you a story about like the lineups that they're in yeah And so you just have to be really careful about those particular.
I was like, oh, he's not that good because he's a minus this or minus that or using it as like only like, oh, clearly the most valuable player on the Thunder is Alex Caruso because he's a plus 17.9.
They used to do this with DeMar DeRozan when he was in Toronto.
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Chapter 4: What are the implications of the Thunder winning the lottery?
It's delicious. It's very good. It's yummy.
Cottage cheese is having a moment.
Also, to your point about the sweet stuff. Sorry, go ahead. Apparently for that cranberry, the viral one, it's raw cranberries, not dried. Okay.
Yeah, that's what I was trying to say.
Okay.
I thought you meant. You guys wouldn't stop talking during my viral food segment.
Okay. Okay. Uh, I, I, I don't even know what a viral food trend would be. Cause I, I'm not like, I don't, I don't, I don't use TikTok and I don't really like Dave.
Do you have a Ninja creamy?
You know what? I will tell you, they look interesting to me. Um, but I'm not a huge ice cream or sweets guy. Hmm. Wow. People really don't like cottage cheese. That's well, it's because it's bad.
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Chapter 5: Who are the players that should be in the Hall of Fame?
You know, the Basketball Hall of Fame is tricky because, number one, there's the worldwide aspect of it. But also, it feels like everybody gets in now. I can't think of anyone who's been snubbed. And as a matter of fact, I think the bigger conversation will be some of these lesser players who get in because they're famous.
and that is you know i think that that's like an issue it waters it down if you if you care about that kind of stuff but i can't i can't there's not a big hall of fame debate with basketball yeah there's not like this guy should be and one guy i did think of that i would would love to hear a hall of fame speech from is uh rashid wallace that would be cool who is not good enough
I think he's good enough. Is his resume good enough is what the real question is. I think that he's as good as a lot of the guys that are in the Hall of Fame. I think he made three all-star teams. He won one championship. He was on the all-rookie team. And it kind of ends there for his accolades. But I think that Rashid was really good.
And some of the personalities have gotten his way, certainly. If he didn't have those and maybe sticks around Portland for a long time and racks up a bunch of numbers and all-star games, he certainly would have had more all-star games if he didn't have all the off I guess a lot of it was on the court, but just like the mayhem that he caused.
Yeah. The technicals, man. I mean, getting ejected all the time, that stuff stands out. And like you said, he should have won more.
Yeah.
Because he was such a really good player.
Oh, he affected winning at a high level. He did. You put him on that Pistons team, they instantly win the title. And they were competitive for a long time.
Is Chris Webber a Hall of Famer?
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Chapter 6: What are the funniest player interactions shared in the episode?
I haven't tried in a while, but I feel like, I mean, the last time I tried was two years ago. I get jumper's knee now. And so I try not to do a lot of that. But the last time I tried, I could still grab the rim. in my 40s and I'm 5'9".
Wow, that's impressive. But I have long arms too.
I was actually thinking about this the other day, like if I was seven feet tall, how close to the NBA would I get?
tell us like like i don't know i don't know you guys tell me high percentage chance of like yeah there is something it's something like an 18 of seven footers make it to the nba or something it's a crazy number i don't know what it is yeah yeah yeah but it is a really high number like look at the very least you're getting a college scholarship i'm playing in college yeah right and then from there it's like how much more can i make out of can't teach height yeah exactly you know you know
i think if i was seven feet i'd have a pretty pretty good chance of making the nba currently at my age do you guys um you know penn and teller pendulet yeah yeah he's like six eight yeah he's tall he's right and he he can juggle like he's he's a magician he's great with his hands apparently he tried to play basketball in high school because he was tall and he was really good around the basket but he didn't he wasn't competitive
so he stopped imagine like you think about the way yokich plays he kind of plays like a magician the way he manipulates the ball i i think about pendulet as a basketball player way too much wow um i need to be seven foot five in order to dunk okay well the torn acl you know that's that's that's a tough one that's where i'd need that's where i need to you'd have to be victor women yama height okay all right yeah
Otherwise, I'm too scared to tear something. I'm not like I just I've given it all up. No basketball. No.
Yeah, you should. No strenuous jumping. I'm telling you, it's not worth it. None of it's worth it. Don't move, everybody. Stay where you are. JD wants to know who is the wolf starting point guard for game one of the playoffs.
Anthony Edwards.
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Chapter 7: How do the Thunder's current roster dynamics affect their future?
Reframing the conversation around Derek queen, I think is more fun than, And the fears thing is really the problem. If they took Derek Queen seven, And he's doing this man. We are all just in love with this, but making the trade. And I think a few years from now, like Derek queen looks like a real player, offensive hub. Like he's going to be good a couple of years from now.
We won't care unless that pick really is something, something special. Um, but it is, I I've watched as people are starting to come around on Derek queen and like people see him now, you know, he's getting more attention. The Pelicans are actually not in a bad spot if they can start to pivot. I think they've got guys who have value.
They could get back into the draft next year, and it's a little bit easier for them to reset and recover from the bad trade than it looks, and especially because Derek Queen is so good.
Yeah.
I would agree with that. I just think generally it's two different conversations. 100%. You can be okay with the fact that the trade sucked at face value and okay with the fact that Derrick Queen probably ends up being an all-star or maybe even an all-NBA player. I think he's that good. Also, to your point, maybe they do entertain the idea of trading a Herb Jones, a Trey Murphy.
They probably have to somehow get off of Zion. But yeah, I agree. They're building something cool. They draft well. Shout out to Troy Weaver. Does good drafting.
Don't trade. Don't trade. Just hang up the phone. Take the battery out of the flip phone that Joe Dumars is still using.
Yeah.
yeah also there's i mean there's also an aspect of the pelicans where it's like somebody's got to score the points like you're gonna score 100 points in every game guaranteed sure somebody's scoring the points i would love to see it in a more competitive environment also why the heck was he not playing at the beginning of the year like that's weird like there's just so much weirdness around the pelicans yeah i don't think they're building anything cool i think they're building a freaking ship at the bottom of the ocean bro i just
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Chapter 8: What are the potential trades discussed for the upcoming season?
Does Josh Hart count? Deuce McBride? Knicks have some good bench pieces. Knicks have a lot of depth.
Deuce is hurt, right?
Yeah, he's out for hopefully not that long, but reevaluating an ankle injury is never a good thing. Yeah.
No.
Tristan Da Silva.
Da Silva's had a nice season. He's been excellent.
Yeah.
He had a great Eurobasket run. Yeah, that team is not winning 25 games, actually, though. Somebody make that team in 2K and see how they do for us.
I got to give a shout out to my guy, Aaron Wiggins, before we go to the next question. Give me Aaron Wiggins and give me the other Jalen Williams as well.
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