Sue Gordon: Trump’s Approach to Intel is “Breathtakingly Reckless"
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It's kind of a Hobson's choice. You tell him everything and he doesn't understand the impact of it. And then he shares it disproportionately or doesn't protect it. And again, it's not just the information. It's about the methodology by which you got it and the humans that actually put their lives at stake, whether there are our people or our allies and partners, people. I mean, to not understand that and then be casual with it is just breathtakingly reckless in the case of the president.
Hi there, everyone. Welcome to the Best People Podcast. To believe Donald Trump's biggest of all big lies, that the 2020 election was rigged against him, you would have to accept that his administration and his administration only botched the one election that took place on his watch. that his team, including some of the very same people who serve in his second term as president, messed it all up in his telling somehow on purpose. The big lie is incoherent, illogical, and deeply insulting to the intelligence of the members of Trump's own political base. But it's also dangerous. And Donald Trump now is making clear that he intends to intervene in the midterms, which at this point don't look like they're going to go his way.
So to help us break down all of this, both the audacity of the lie, the danger it brings us, is our dear friend Sue Gordon. She spent her life as a public servant serving our country. She served presidents in the Democratic Party and the Republican Party. She resigned as one of the top intelligence officials in our country, where she was the deputy DNI from 2017 to 2019. And she left with honor. She left with truth. She left with her reputation intact. And she left with an important message for Donald Trump that I think it's worth listening to today. So without any further ado, this is the best people. And this is my dear friend, Sue Gordon. Hi, friend. Hey, Nicole. How are you? I went back and read your resignation letter and reminded myself of the circumstances of your departure because you're one of those, not even rare birds, like unicorns who served with honor and integrity, told Donald Trump the truth, and he liked you for a while while you were there.
How did you pull that off?
You know, I think... For me, it kind of was encapsulated in the opening of my confirmation hearing. And I remember these words that I wrote and that I said, and I think I've always tried to keep it in mind. And that is, it said, simply put, I love America. I love being part of the process that our founders envisioned and to serve my turn in their cause. And so I think every single day of my federal career, and quite frankly, to this day, I am for America, and that is a really pretty simple, not simplistic, but pretty simple North Star for me. And so when I was in the government, I did my job. When I was clearly going to be forced out, I made a choice about how I wanted to leave so that I left America.
my country and my community, not in shambles over my departure, but with the reminder of who they were. So I don't know, maybe I lucked into it or maybe I just have been gifted a clarity of what my purpose is.
When you left, Adam Schiff and I think some Republicans as well, I'm paraphrasing now, but the sum of all of their warnings about your departure was that you would leave a gaping hole in the leadership ranks of the intelligence community that Donald Trump would fill in ways that wouldn't be good for the intelligence community. Has that transpired?
Yeah, I think leadership matters. And I hope I say that in a way that no one thinks that I think I'm special.
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Chapters
5 chapters
1
What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
0:00–13:54
2
How did Sue Gordon describe why she stayed and told Trump the truth as deputy DNI?
13:54–25:28
3
Why does leadership matter for the intelligence community’s effectiveness?
25:28–33:06
4
Did Donald Trump read or act on intelligence regularly when Gordon served?
33:06–37:54
5
How dangerous is mishandling classified information like the Mar‑a‑Lago documents?
37:54–55:50
Speakers
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Brian Driscoll on the Hollowing Out of the FBI: "It's Devastating”