The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Power Poll, the Surprise Celtics, the Queen Conundrum, and Fake Trades Galore With Rob Mahoney
09 Dec 2025
Chapter 1: What is discussed at the start of this section?
The Bill Simmons podcast is presented by the ringer podcast network, where we put up a new rewatchables on Monday night. We did shampoo 50 years later with Cameron Crowe and Sean fantasy. And if you like movies like singles and Jerry Maguire and almost famous and say anything, um,
and you didn't think we could weave a 50-year-old rewatchables movie in with all of those movies and get a lot of good anecdotes and stories from the guy who directed those movies, think again, because this podcast was awesome. Please go check it out. Go check out our new Ringer podcast, Game Over, with Max Kellerman and Rich Paul. We launched the first one on Monday.
It's going to be Monday, Wednesday, Friday. Already making some news with the first one, but high hopes for that podcast. Really fun to...
to work on and uh i'm glad to have max back talking sports glad to have rich talking sports who knew rich had so many takes all right then don't forget about our music box series we had the jeff buckley documentary last week we have one about whiz kid coming this week it's december 11th it's about whiz kid and uh basically the history of afrobeats it's really really really cool uh please check it out thursday night and then it will be available on hbo max
all week. Coming up on this podcast, Rob Mahoney, who is someone I've been on all season, but we made up for it by going for almost 100 minutes. I threw a power pole at him from 30 to one and we went through it and we talked about every team. Just all kinds of questions, fake trades, philosophical discussions. Rob was more excited about the Celtics than I am. We covered it all and it's all next.
We're going to take a break. We're going to talk about... We're going to talk about Pearl Jam. Oh, no, we're not going to talk about them. They're going to sing for us. And then we're going to bring in Rob Mahoney. And I did all this for the NBA Cup. We can talk about the NBA Cup on Thursday. So Rob Mahoney next. This episode of the Bill Simmons Podcast is presented by State Farm.
Having insurance isn't the same as having State Farm. It's like expecting a linebacker on the football field, but getting a line cook. Sure, they both can handle the pressure when it starts heating up, but only one is stopping a touchdown. You wouldn't settle for just anything for your team, so don't settle for just any insurance when it comes to getting help you need.
State Farm is the real deal. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. All right, we were recording this Tuesday morning Pacific time. This guy has not been on my podcast all season, and that's my fault. But you are a busy guy, Rob Mahoney. It's true.
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Chapter 2: What are the highlights of the new Ringer podcast, Game Over?
Joanna has co-opted you for the Prestige TV show. You're just doing a lot of stuff. You're in the big picks sometimes. I'm still taking it personally, though.
I now just have a lifetime grudge against Tim Legler all because of you, Bill. Thanks a lot.
Fuck you, Tim Legler. We're doing this before the NBA Cup. So I think I might do something at the Cup on the top. Do you care about the NBA Cup is my question.
I've chosen to care about the Cup. Has it given me a reason to believe that the basketball will be above and beyond? Absolutely not. But I like to find a little something to care about in the regular season, even if it's somewhat arbitrary.
I've landed in the camp of... I like watching basketball where the players care. I don't really care about the reason why they care. But as long as they care, I'm in. And it feels like they care. They could care because of the money, because the courts look weird, because there's less games on and they know the other players are watching. I don't know all the reasons. But the intensity is there.
So that's why I'm going to watch. But ultimately, like it took me 10 minutes to remember who won last year. And I genuinely don't remember who won two years ago. Who won two years ago? Was it the Lakers?
It was the Lakers.
That's probably why I blocked it out of my mind. All right. So I invited you on. This is going to be a long meandering pod where we go through a power poll that I sent you that you might disagree with some of the choices. And we're going to go from 30 to one. And I wanted to hit each team. and occasionally have a question as I go through the teams that I want to raise.
And I did not send you the questions because you're a pro. You don't need the questions. You're ready to roll. You can go blind. I appreciate that. But the dregs is our first group in the power pole. Yeah. And I think Washington is the worst team in the league. I don't know if that's going to stay. But right now they're the worst team in the league.
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Chapter 3: What is the significance of the NBA Cup in this season?
Um, and it's easy. It's like connect Kleber and a 2031 first call it in. And now you have, yeah, that's, that's like, just call that in. He's on a good contract and maybe it would even take more than that. I really like Alvarado for one of these contenders. And I was going through trying to find the perfect team and was looking at Houston for a while.
But I'm not sure I want to mess with the Reed Shepard thing because I still feel like how he grows is going to determine so much for them. But Minnesota seemed nice. which is easy. That's like Dillingham and you do a pick swap in 32.
Especially for Minnesota, very quietly, Rob Dillingham got yanked out of the rotation last night. We're getting real live Bones Highland minutes. It's really rough. Bones did what he could with those, but yeah, the idea of someone like Alvarado in that spot, I do quite like too.
Yeah. I mean, honestly, from what we've seen of Rob, he's young, but is more just a contract that you can exchange for Alvarado, maybe more than an asset, unless he shows something. Yeah, it's tough. That's why a swap has to be in there. But the one I really like for them, and Detroit has some flexibility. So basically they can trade Sasser-
and let's say a 2030 unprotected first for Alvarado, which seems like a lot. Maybe you put a top three on it, whatever. And it would save New Orleans $4 million. They'd get a pick. And then you'd put Alvarado. Could Detroit be more Cobra Kai? Actually, they could. Let's put Jose Alvarado on the team and have him trying to do the sneak around as somebody's inbounding the ball and then steal it.
All the annoying stuff he does on top of all the other annoying guys they have.
That would be tremendous.
It's just perfect. He's like, he's at a central casting. So sign me up for that trade. And then here's my last one. I was trying to think of a clips hail Mary. The clips are like three wins or three losses outside of the 10 seat. It's not like their season's over. Do you roll the Zion dice? Have we reached that point?
Is this like the, I'm down a million dollars at the casino in Vegas and I'm just going to put another million on red and try to win it all back? Have we reached that point if you're the Clippers? Is that a thing you've done? No. Okay. I'm the hypothetically movie scene. Okay. Just making sure. The Clippers are in the movie in Vegas. It's Saturday night.
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Chapter 4: What teams are highlighted in the power poll discussion?
Kawhi's moving around pretty well. He's doing fine. There's still some moments for him on defense where it's like, oh. I'm sure there's contenders and people with big contracts that are also looking at him.
Yes.
Kind of going, huh. Um, I think they'd be nuts to trade for him because God knows when he's playing, but like the Zion trades easy. Cause they have the Collins and Bogdanovich expirings. You throw the Pelicans at 2030 unprotected first. I don't think the Pelicans want to be in the Zion business anymore.
I don't think so.
I can't imagine they're going to extend that deal. Maybe you even put a top three in the first, but I really, the team I really wanted to take a swing for him was the Warriors, but I couldn't figure out the money. It would basically be like a five for three. Those things never happen. But the Clippers... So just think conceptually. Harden.
Yeah.
Kawhi.
Zion. Zubat's.
And some sort of like person in the corner who's just ready to make a shot. And you just had this really weird team of guys that can go one-on-one depending on who your weak spot is. And you have some rebounding. And then if Zion turns into Zion again, and maybe they could just spend a ton of money on him, unlike what the Pelicans have done to try to help his health.
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Chapter 5: What has changed in the offensive game of the player discussed?
And that was kind of his offensive game. And now he has this sophisticated... He's averaging 16 two-point shots a night. Think about that. Not even threes. And he's shooting almost 50%.
Chapter 6: What makes Dylan Brooks the most underrated player of the decade?
So he's turned into this DeRozan, Kawhi kind of two-point shooter. I just think he's been awesome. And he's carried the load. We'll talk about the Celtics in a second. Phoenix, I have at 16%. In the signs of human life, just because they're over under us 31. The Brooks thing is incredible. And Brooks has become now the most underrated player of the decade. It's just like Dylan Brooks wins.
You can't refute it. Definitely changes the thing. I don't really fully understand the Phoenix thing. I mean, they're only... They're 14 and 10 or 15 and 10. I think they're 14 and 10, but the Gillespie piece is the part I don't understand the most because they actually needed him last year.
Chapter 7: How does the performance of Colin Gillespie impact the Suns?
And there were moments where he looked good, but then Bud just never played him.
Yeah.
And now when you watch him, he looks like he could be an all-star. I know he won't, but you know what I mean? Like he's way more talented than they gave him credit for last year when they actually needed him. I don't never understand that.
I mean, they beat the Wolves last night without Devin Booker because Colin Gillespie turned into a fourth quarter supernova. And that's just been a kind of a regular occurrence where it's been an incredible shooter. He's I mean, turned out, especially for his size, the playmaking has been really impressive. Like he sees lobs and cross court stuff that guards his size usually don't.
Really, really impressed. Honestly, with his ball movement, but really the Suns overall. I know their defense gets a lot of attention because of Dylan Brooks and kind of the edge they play with now. But this is a group of guys who either weren't on the team or weren't in these roles, a la Colin Gillespie, who stepped in this season and just knew that exactly how to play together.
They just got the angles, the cuts, the timing. Really remarkable and very surprising given the players that they were able to cobble together there. But it's just kind of worked.
And the coach is doing a great job. I feel like we have more good coaches than we might've had at any point this century. Where I look around the league and I'm like, that guy's a good coach.
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Chapter 8: What strategies are the Celtics using to succeed this season?
Yeah, that team's really well put together. We don't have a lot of Doug Christies, I guess is my point.
I feel like the general rules are always, there are like five exemplary coaches who really help you a lot. And there's five at the bottom that really kind of drag you down. And everyone else is sort of in the soft, you know, middle of the bell curve or whatever. Now the bell curve seems higher, right? It's higher. And there's like...
Maybe one or two guys in the league in terms of the bottom end of coaches. If that, I think the low-hanging fruit has just been picked up by basically every team out there to the point that there's only so much you can do to really shoot your team in the foot.
We also have a couple coaches I think have in career years, like Missoula, Spoh. There's people who are just like doing, like I think JJ's been really good. I don't understand the Lakers record at all with some of the limitations they have. Some of the bad teams, like the Nets coach is really good. I think the Raptors coach, I think that team's overachieved.
All right, one more break and then we'll do the top 15. All right, we'll rip through the trade machine crew really quickly because we've talked about these teams already on my pod a bunch. Toronto's 15-10. They fell back to earth a little. They had some easy schedule stuff the first part. I'm still not sure about this team. Their fans were really chirpy when the record was good.
That settled down a little bit. The most important thing to me is that Barnes just feels... It still feels like he's gone up a level. And this is the most I've liked watching him. Ultimately, I'm not sure what the destiny of this team is. Their bench seems like it saves their ass a bunch. With Shed and Mamou and Agbaje. Dick, they'll come in and they'll be down 10.
All of a sudden, they'll be up 8. I'm not sure what the move is with them either because I think it would be hard for them to make trades. This is kind of their team. But they should be in that... six to nine range, right? Somewhere in there. I don't think they're a top five team.
I think they have enough good players, the Raptors do, and salaries that could actually be cobbled together to get something important back that you kind of have to talk about them when any of these big potential deals come up.
Golden State, 13 and 12.
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