Conny Kalcher, Chief Marketing Officer at Zurich, joins Rory Sutherland to explore why most companies get customer experience wrong.After decades at LEGO and now at one of the world’s largest insurers, she explains how businesses drift into short-term thinking — and what it takes to shift back to building real, lasting relationships.During her time at LEGO, she helped expand the brand beyond children into a global creative platform, unlocking new audiences and deeper engagement. In her current role at Zurich, she’s applying that same thinking to transform a 150-year-old organisation from product-led to customer-led.From training empathy across 60,000 employees to using AI to simplify thousands of customer interactions, this episode is about turning “customer-first” from a slogan into a system.They explore trust, retention, human behaviour, and why the companies that win are the ones that stay valuable over time.Follow RoryInstagram: @rorysutherland_clipsTikTok: @RorysutherlandclipsX: @rorysutherlandLinkedIn: in/rorysutherland/Follow ElfriedInstagram: @elfriedsambaLinkedIn: in/elfriedsamba/https://www.butterflyeffect.xyz/Follow Conny KalcherLinkedIn: in/conny-kalcher-198ba5/X: @ConnyKalA Sassy+ original podcast series

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