Chapter 1: What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
A listener production. Hey, it's Sasha Barbagat. Welcome to The Weekend Briefing, where we chat with the humans behind the headlines. For the last 30 years, John Safran has been poking the bear.
Most Australians would know little of the Ku Klux Klan, so what happens if you were brought up Jewish but you don't do anything Jewish anymore? Because, like, that's where I'm at. We receive a curse. Seven times greater. Seven times greater. Come out of him in the name of Jesus. All right. OK.
Get the f*** out of my building now.
Chapter 2: What makes John Safran comfortable in uncomfortable situations?
Whether it be fronting up to the Ku Klux Klan's headquarters asking to join ā he's Jewish, in case you didn't know ā getting exercised by fundamentalist Christians or running naked through the streets of Jerusalem, he is no stranger to awkwardness, being uncomfortable or staring danger right in the face, even if he put himself there willingly.
He's always been obsessed with the taboo, religion, cultural identity, cults, weirdos and outsiders. Now he's got a new show out that's diving into free speech and what is offensive and who gets to decide that.
Chapter 3: How did John Safran get involved with the Ku Klux Klan?
John has got the gift of the gab and we cover a lot in our chat. Yes, including his one week squat at Kanye West's abandoned mansion. After my chat with John, we get into the weekend list with Helen Smith recommending everything to watch, see, do, eat and listen to. But first, here it is, my chat with John Safran. I hope you enjoy. John Safran, welcome to The Weekend Briefing.
Before we hit record, I was actually bringing up an Instagram post I made in 2017, in May actually, and it was a picture. You're probably not going to be able to see it, but it's actually a picture of you and I. Oh, okay. And I captioned it, Congratulations, John Safran. You've taken my grab a celeb in the hallway and forced them to take a photo with you, virginity.
I still have not grabbed a celebrity in the hallway and asked them to take a photo with me.
I think to tell them celebrity is doing a lot of heavy lifting there. But, you know, I'll take it.
Well, to me, look, to me you were, my parents watched almost all of your documentaries as I was growing up and so I just grew up with you as, you know, a person who was of importance in Australia. So I did take you as a celebrity. So I, for one, am very excited for this chat. Thank you so much for joining me today.
No, no, no, thank you.
And look, you have said and done so much in your 30-year career. I really struggled to actually come up with a first question for you. So maybe for people who aren't as familiar with your work and what you have done, I'm curious to know how you would describe your place in the Australian cultural zeitgeist. We know celebrity is not one of those words you'd use.
I guess I'm a storyteller and if that sounds a bit on the nose, it's only because at the moment I'm doing the reboot of Race Around the World and I'm the judge, the weekly judge, so I have to like watch these films and I'm trying to figure out how, you know, like that's got a lot of promise but if they're only da-da-da-da-da and you start thinking about your own work.
And yeah, I think I'm a sideways storyteller. When the opportunity arises, I use the genre of the opportunity. So for instance, before I was on Race Around the World, which is a a documentary show where that was the first time I was on air, dear listener and viewer, where ABC was looking for eight young people who'd never been in the media before. This was in like 1997.
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Chapter 4: What does John Safran think about free speech in 2026?
Here's a letter from my ex-girlfriend. Let's go visit some voodoo priests. And then you got to see the process of the voodoo through my, like, petty personal story. And when I did that... I was like, this is somehow just, it was like, this is what I should be doing. I should be kind of like telling these personal stories that speak to these bigger things.
And there's all this stuff going on there. Like, for instance, it's totally obnoxious on one level to kind of make everything about yourself. But on this other level, like the audience is aware that I'm aware. So there's that going on. And so there's a lot of stuff going on.
Chapter 5: What was it like squatting in Kanye West's abandoned mansion?
And also, I think... I think ā and I was like young at the time. I wasn't like ā so things were sort of like subconscious or whatever like that. I think I did kind of feel it was a bit ā like on the nose to be like pointing a camera at other people and like, oh, look at this, these interesting foreigners or whatever.
Chapter 6: How does John Safran view censorship in the internet age?
It just seemed like, and it seemed just more, I was just way more comfortable with throwing myself in there and being part of it all and just, and also I think people, other people appreciated it, that you sort of, Like on the ground, back then at least, like I got good feedback. And I think everything I've done since then has been this ā
like sharing kind of like some personal thing, almost like oversharing this personal thing from my past or from my experiences or to sort of like speak to some bigger thing. And then not a lot of hectoring or conclusions. I hate conclusions. Like other conclusions are for someone else.
And I also think if you've got enough, if you've brought enough through the story, why kind of should you have a ā who am I to have a conclusion?
Yeah.
And I also noticed things I really liked when I was really little, I noticed they always had really bad endings. And I was like, why is that? Like, you know, there'd be like these Looney Tunes cartoons, like with Daffy Duck and Bugs Bunny. It'd be hilarious the whole way through. And then the ending was always lame. And same like Monty Python never has good endings.
So that's also part of it where I'm going to go, I'm going to follow in the rich tradition of good storytelling where it doesn't have good endings.
You mentioned there that maybe at the time it felt a little bit on the nose as well. And, of course, I think the thing people most remember you for from Race Around the World was your stunt in Jerusalem. I call it a stunt. I don't know if you'd call it a stunt, but for those who don't know, you put your footy tips in the cracks of the Wailing Wall.
You also ran naked through the streets in a Saints beanie and scarf. What do you think would happen if you did that now? And would you do it now?
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I can't really go. Listen, I've really learnt a lot and I would never do that now. And then cut to me, what, one and a half years ago when I'm writing this book called Squatting at Kanye's where I've, like, climbed over his fence of the abandoned mansion and squatted at Kanye West's house in a thing. No, I think I'd do it.
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Chapter 7: What are some of John Safran's most provocative projects?
It's just kind of anecdotal and vibes. But, yeah, no, no, I think totally I'd ā I heard Quentin Tarantino might be doing a remake of Reservoir Dogs, his first film, as his next film. And, like, yeah, maybe I should just do a remake of Wraith Around the World. I mean, we'll see what happens.
Well... I mean, you're going to be judging it, so maybe they'll look to emulate you and to pay tribute to your great work from 30 years ago. Do you, though, think, John, I know you say, you know, yeah, you squatted at Kanye's and we will talk about that quite shortly, actually. I've got it next on my list, really.
But, like, genuinely going to Jerusalem and running through the streets naked in light of what is going on at the moment, like, do you think that you could still do that and do you think your career would have lasted as long as it has if you did do that?
No, sorry, if the point is, oh, is that bad taste in the light of a war? Like, again, maybe that would be a reason I wouldn't do it. Like, there's just a context to things where it's not like you're censoring yourself, but you're going, oh, considering this context, that changes how it will be received, so I won't. But that's very different to sort of like...
Like, for instance, like after 9-11, there was a couple of album covers that happened to have the World Trade Centre on them. And then it's like, oh, let's redo the album cover. And that's not self-censorship, I think, because they're saying, it's the artist going, oh, listen, we never meant it to be
I think if they meant it to be provocative and then they sold out and if for some reason before 9-11 they wanted to be provocative about the World Trade Centre and hate America and say, yeah, whatever, and then they compromised afterwards, then that would be self-censorship. But if it's like, oh, listen.
this just changes the entire context of what I was trying to get across, then I think that's fine. Yeah, so that might be a reason, like a certain context, like if it was like, oh, listen, it just ā You know, it's like the Sex Pistols, Sex Pistols have a song called Holiday in the Sun where it's about, you know, people going on holiday when there's like tragedies going on and stuff like that.
And yeah, yeah. So totally, if the context was, if that's the point, would a change in context mean I wouldn't specifically do that? Totally. Totally.
Yeah, I just think that your work always, even then, people would have raised eyebrows at it. That's why it was so interesting to watch. And I think that's why you've been so successful is that you're doing things that people ordinarily wouldn't do. Like you said, in the context of what we're seeing now, it's probably not something that you would do, but it's not necessarily the action so much.
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Chapter 8: How does John Safran balance personal storytelling with broader themes?
Except I'm going to build a church that's going to be in the grounds of this huge property in Calabasas and I'm going to build essentially kind of, I don't know, what do you call that thing where the Greeks do their plays?
Oh, an amphitheater.
Yeah, an amphitheater. Like he built a wooden amphitheater on the grounds, but there was also a mansion attached and then attached to that another house or whatever like that. So he started, you know, a Sunday school there or a Sunday choir there and then just got bored pretty quickly because he kept on trying to set up a ā
a Christian school in different locations and this was just one of them and he just abandoned it. And then it was like wasting away. There was no, like...
clearing up of things so for instance the mansion was surrounded by this kind of plastic this white plastic that was on scaffolding and that was like with a lot of the things with kanye it's like is that art or is that like trying to block out the paparazzi or and uh
But that was just left and it was like just the sun and the rain had affected it, so it was like just flapping there on the scaffolding. And inside, from what I understand, he'd used one of ā when he broke up with Kim Kardashian, he did use it as a bachelor pad when he was then dating some Russian model, I believe. But I think more generally besides that, he was using it as ā
oh, this is where you go after the Sunday service. At the amphitheatre, come on in, we'll have like some trestle tables set up, you know, like after a thing at a church or something and have some soup and things. And there was ā so it was kind of like ā empty but spotted with things.
And, again, like the mansion was all painted blue everywhere and whatever room you were in, the ceiling, the floors were blue padding and stuff like that. And, again, like some artists did that. So, again, as with so many things as Kanye, it's sort of like ambiguously half art and half, I don't know.
And like the rain was coming through and the roof was, you know, there were like skylights, but they were damaged. And so I had to be careful where I slept so I didn't get muddy water on me. And yeah, it was pretty crazy. And there was a big... fence out the front. And this was in a part of, people think of Los Angeles as like maybe cities and highways and cement and asphalt and stuff.
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