Chapter 1: What is the significance of the Eucharist in Orthodox Christianity?
We consider the Eucharist truly one of those mysteries that we can't explain but truly becomes his body and blood and it's necessary for our salvation.
I am so logically hardwired and that has been one of the hardest things for me to accept with all the sacraments, which is why I wanted to talk to you particularly about the Eucharist today. If you wanted to watch this episode early, exclusive content and more, check out our Patreon. Our Patreon is the best place for you guys to support us. Keep us producing the podcast.
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Join the Patreon, support the mission, get early access to podcast videos, exclusive content and more. What's going on, guys? Welcome back to another episode of the Bryce Carver Podcast. I'm Bryce, and today I'm sitting down with Father Lazarus of the Coptic Orthodox Church. Thank you for sitting down. Thank you. I'm excited. There's a lot of things I want to talk to you about.
I never prepare notes to not only read, but also to learn. I think one of the hardest things that's been for me is to be able to sit down, process, verbally kind of understand certain things, particularly sacraments, particularly tradition. Something that has been on my heart is tradition and sacraments. I am very... I love and respect deeply how you hold tradition.
And from the moment we've walked in, the fear of the Lord that you have, the weight and reverence you have for the sacraments, for the murals, for the saints, it's deeply respectful, and it's something that I long for and want a better understanding on. So thank you for sitting down with me.
Yeah, it's a blessing for me. Thank you.
To kind of open up a little bit, I mainly wanted to ask a little bit about how did you start following Jesus? Where did that start from?
Yeah, I was born and raised in the Coptic Orthodox Church and had loving parents. And they did all they could to kind of show me who Jesus is. Actually, what's interesting is my dad would sometimes go to the evangelical church, even though he was a baptized Coptic. And once in a while, we'd go to the evangelical church, but mostly in the Coptic Orthodox Church.
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Chapter 2: How did Father Lazarus begin his journey of faith?
The Pope would travel with bishops. One of the bishops came up to me and he gave me the biggest hug ever. Like we're best friends. And saying, so good to see you. And even when I looked in his face, there was a light. There was a light emanating from his face. Supernatural. I can't explain it. And he said, so good to see you. What just happened? Who is this guy?
I knew that person had something in him that I didn't have. And I wanted to find out what was the secret. And all these thoughts were going through my mind. Does he think I'm someone else? Or did I meet him before and I forgot? I wanted to find out. I was curious who this person was. And I found out he's a bishop. And he's the bishop of the youth.
And he would come every summer to give conventions. And it was life-changing for me. I saw someone who loves Jesus Christ, who is filled with the love of Jesus Christ. And he was giving the gospel in a message that I could grasp and understand. And it was a message of joy. That's what drew me first, you know, most, even though I grew up in the church. So soon after that, I started to confess.
Confession was a big part of my, I wouldn't say conversion, because we would say a revert, right? Because I was born and raised in the church. But I started confession, and a father of confession plays a pivotal role in a person's life. Because This spiritual father, his sole most important task is our salvation. So he guides us. And then I was confessing and I saw myself as this unworthy person.
Then all of a sudden he asks me to start to serve Sunday school. And I was like, what? Like, you know who I am. Like, who am I to start to serve and to try to influence kids in the right direction? I started to serve and I was reading the Bible. And of course, you come across Matthew 25. We were talking about that earlier. And Matthew 25, like, It changed my life all the more.
And I said, wow, to be a Christian, it's synonymous with serving those who are in need. There's no question about it. If you're not serving those who are in need, you're not a true follower of Jesus Christ. Literally, the Lord is going to separate everyone at the end from those that loved him and served him and had faith in serving faithfully, serving him and those who didn't.
I was hungry, you gave me food. I was thirsty, you gave me drink. I was a stranger, you took me in. I was naked, you clothed me. I was sick and in prison, you visited me. And what you do to the least of these, my brethren, you did it to me. Those are the ones who are going to inherit eternal life. And those who didn't do that are going where what was created for the devil and his angels. Yeah.
So it's a combination of really seeing the love of Christ in someone, somebody taking me under his wing and discipling me, service and having a personal relationship with Christ, and then the most important, I would say the Eucharist, started partaking of the communion, the body and the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ on a regular basis.
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Chapter 3: What role does tradition play in Orthodox practices?
And that's where really I felt God's presence bolstered.
Wow.
So I love the language that you used, like discipleship. A scripture that has been really shaking me to the core recently is when it says, even the demons believe. Yes. And that challenges me as someone who claims to have been following Jesus for five years. Yes. What makes me different than the demon? What makes me different than those who are slaves to Satan?
And that has challenged me, especially now being a husband. where it's like now i've i've experienced this beautiful covenant i'll never forget on my wedding day just this new beautiful profound revelation of christ being uh the bridegroom and the church being the bride and just being like wow i
i am saying to my bride i'm willing to die for you this new thing like what makes me different than the demons what makes me different in this and laying this life down what it the importance of discipleship um i i would love to i'd love to talk a little bit about that and that's something that um i i think is extremely important to the believer
Something that I deeply love and respect about Orthodoxy, Catholicism, these people that hold deep tradition is this weight of discipleship. Why is it so important that people are disciples?
Well, we're depositing the faith. You know, for us, faith is a matter of life and death as we have the icon of the 21 martyrs behind us, right? So we're depositing the faith and we're passing this torch and making sure those who receive it know the weight of what they're receiving. We're children of the King.
And there might be a time where there's going to be a knife to your throat and a gun to your head, even children. Like in Egypt, a conversation parents have with their children If somebody threatens to kill you, even with the gun right to your head, and tells you, don't believe in Jesus Christ, deny Jesus Christ, you say, no, I will always be a believer in Jesus Christ.
Children are infused with this. So this deposit of faith, it's, we are carrying the most important task. This is, you know, I'm to deliver. And we see it as, I'm a piece of heaven. The Lord said, the kingdom of heaven is within you. I'm a piece of heaven. And my job is to tell others and deliver others to heaven.
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Chapter 4: How does confession influence spiritual growth in Orthodoxy?
And I feel like I've been unknowingly sinning against God. The thing I have a really hard time wrapping my mind around, I haven't been fully convinced of transubstantiation. I believe in the real presence. I had a moment with communion a couple months ago that could make me cry.
I was in a church with a very lovely pastor friend of mine who leads a Protestant church, who has a deep reverent respect, who go to mass at Catholic church.
And he was like, we need to institute the Eucharist here. It's so important. We've been doing it. We've been doing it wrong. We've been doing it wrong.
And I'm sitting in this church, and as I'm taking communion, I'm sitting here going, God, I just, I'm so sorry that I've thought this was merely a symbol. And the presence of God impacting my heart was so unreal in that moment. And I've never had, and to think that that is the case every time.
Does it surprise us that our Lord will humble us to this point? It doesn't surprise me. The one who would leave being worshipped by the angels, to come confine himself to the womb of the Virgin, to be a little child born in the worst of circumstances, the worst circumstances ever in history,
And then for him to flee to another country because his life is sought after, wanted to be destroyed by Herod, to be raised for the first few years of his life in a foreign country in Egypt, to come back, live a very poor life, every day to hear nails, hammer, wood, nails, hammer, wood, reminding him of what's going to be before him because his earthly father was a carpenter, right?
Yeah.
I'm sure there would be times he would be crying and his mother didn't know why. He knew what was ahead of him, right? Does it really shock us that this one who would do all this and suffer and die in the worst, most excruciating way, literally the word crucifixion, the word excruciating comes from the word crucifixion. Literally.
to be stripped naked, to be spat upon, the one who was whipped, the one who would be nailed, the one who would be thorns. Does it, that he would humble himself that much? Of course he would humble himself to be some crumbs. Crumbs, God became crumbs.
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Chapter 5: What is the relationship between faith and works in salvation?
You are not coming to partake of the Lord's Supper. Had church been focused on something else more important, he would have said, you had not come to hear the word of the Lord. You had not come to hear to worship. You had not come here to hear the sermon. He didn't say that. You are not coming to partake of the Lord's Supper.
Some will say, well, he's talking about their sins because they were hungry and drunk and they were looking at it as a feast. No, he was diagnosing that illness. That was their illness. For us, we have other illnesses. Some of us are living double lives. Some of us are addicted to porn. Some of us are money hungry, this and that. It's still, are you discerning the Lord's body?
Are you partaking of the Lord's body and blood in an unworthy manner or not? I should be repenting. I should be confessing. And then this is another thing. I think a lot of churches are coming to the understanding of real presence. And you have a big platform. You're going to be tasked with this. This is part of something.
If you feel that God is shedding light to you, you're going to be responsible to share it to everyone. And there's going to be some people that are going to hate you and not follow you anymore. But our job is we're going to have to answer to God. If when the knife is on my neck, whatever, I can't deny the truth, whatever it is. I'll share with you one other thing about the Eucharist.
Two weeks ago, I had this dream. I saw the dead body of the Lord Jesus laying on the ground. It was a bloody mess. Bloody mess. And I was shocked. He didn't even look like a human being. And immediately my mind went to the Eucharist. You, Lord, went through that. Give me your body and blood. But it's not just a carcass that we're partaking. We're partaking of the resurrected body.
We can't separate his crucifixion from the resurrection.
So look at his love that God would become crumbs. Why is it that Jesus at the Last Supper, he mentions that the next time he will partake in this meal is the marriage supper? Very good. What is the importance of that?
So we have to think of this. We have to kind of take the whole, let's take the Last Supper as a whole. Some people will ask, well, how could Jesus give us his body when he said it's broken, when he hadn't even been crucified yet, right? Well, he's also called the lamb slain before the foundation of the world. So in a mystical way, God is not bound by time. Our Lord is not bound by time.
He can give that. Okay, that's one thing. Second thing is, He says, do this in remembrance of me. A lot of people just say, well, it's just a remembrance. That's a wrong understanding. When do we do a memorial or remembrance for someone? When someone is what? Dead. Dead and gone. Yeah.
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Chapter 6: Why is serving the least of these important in Christian faith?
Is Jesus dead? Is he gone? He's very much alive. Very much alive. So the word remembrance, it's taken from the word anamnesis. Anamnesis, a better translation is present again. Present again of what I gave to you. It's where we get the word animation. Animation is you're seeing real time like something that's presenting again.
And it's more of a recognition than a remembrance because a remembrance is for somebody dead. Recognition is somebody alive and present. Jesus is with us. When he says, I will not drink of the cup again until I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom. When we are receiving communion here, when did he ascend? He ascended after the 40 days. You want to tell?
When we partake of communion, he's partaking of communion with us. That's what he's saying. When I go to my Father King, as you're partaking, I'm with you. I'm receiving. Because in communion, I'm offering myself to him as he's offering himself to me. That's why he said, he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me and I in him. There's an intimacy.
I come and I bring my whole world, my universe, all my problems, all my ailments, all the people I'm praying for. I come and I offer this to Jesus. And I receive him. There's an interaction. There's an offering of oneself to the other, like an intimacy, like a husband and wife. So this is, you felt something so precious, so beautiful, so intimate with our Lord. It's an exchange, okay?
So this is what he's telling us. I'm receiving you as you are receiving me. And we take him and we bring him out to the world. This is the most beautiful thing of communion. I receive him and now it's my duty to show the whole world who he is, the love that he invites me to, his arms that are stretched waiting for me.
Now, if a believer says, like if I came to you and I said, Father, this past week I feel like I feel cloudy in my thoughts. I feel like I'm having a hard time hearing the Lord, maybe reading the Scriptures, understanding the Scriptures, digesting them, name a few issues I feel like I'm having. Sure.
Would you think, do you think that the Scriptures would say, hey, maybe the reason is, are you partaking in the Eucharist? And I would say, I haven't been partaking in the Eucharist.
Well, there's a combination of things. Even when we're partaking of the Eucharist, I partake of the Eucharist every day by God's grace. It's not a boast, it's really because it's my medicine. Because I need it. So I still get those cloudy thoughts. I still get tempted. My mind wanders here and there and I need to fight and make sure I'm bringing every thought captive to the obedience of Christ.
I still have to battle pride all the time. I'm a sinner. So Not just because we're not taking communion, but we are still in the flesh. And this is why we need to partake of it regularly. Because he said, given for the remission of sins. Whenever do we hear the word remission, something is in remission. It's usually about cancer, right?
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Chapter 7: How do the teachings of early church fathers inform modern faith practices?
So confession is a beautiful thing. We were talking about, you know, I'm not trying to bring up some, I'm not going to put names out there, but like some of these giants in like the evangelical world that at the end of their life, we saw a fall from grace or some people that are really well known, a fall from grace. Had they been confessing regularly, could that have been alleviated? Maybe.
I think when we have confession, we're humbling ourselves. We are talking about the thoughts that we have. So it's not just when I sin, it's my intentions. We have this prayer, we say, purify our thoughts, purify our intentions, heal our sicknesses, forgive us our sins. We say, forgive us our sins that we commit willingly and unwillingly. knowingly and unknowingly, the hidden and manifest.
Like we are scrutinizing every facet of our heart to make sure that my heart, my mind, because the Lord said what? Love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul, all your mind, all your strength. That means what? I have to be scrutinizing every detail of my heart, soul, mind.
Yeah.
And if there is a little step this way, and if I'm not confessing, if I'm not confiding in someone that's guiding me and praying for me, and his sole goal for me is my salvation. So what am I missing out on? And I think a lot of churches now are coming with like the small groups and accountability partners. And I think this is a way to kind of move back.
But like, that's the thing, you know, you came to this beautiful realization. You came to this church and this pastor that's like, we need to go back and we were doing this wrong. This is the beauty of being part of an apostolic. I don't have to go back. We are living in the back. We're living in the ancient times.
Like people, when they step into our church, they feel like they stepped into the third and fourth century. We literally have churches still standing from the third century and fourth century in Egypt, right? So there's this line of martyrdom. There's a trail of blood from the very beginning all the way till today.
We were even killed by other Christians when we split off from the Byzantine and the Roman Catholic Church at the time. We were slaughtered by them. So we have this trail of blood that's till today. We've kept this faith. We don't have to figure it out. I don't have to. And we have the writings of these early church fathers.
So as we said from the very beginning, like when Sola Scriptura was touted and taught, two early reformers, they disagreed. Like that shows how sola scriptura fails because it's about the interpretation. So instead of me trying to figure it out, let's look what the ancient church said and what the Holy Spirit has guided the church to always teach. That's the promise of the Lord.
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Chapter 8: What is the importance of discipleship in the Orthodox Church?
That's not salvation. Salvation is crucified with God. die with Christ, to be united with Christ, one with Christ. No longer I who live, Christ who lives. This is salvation to us. As you grow, Father Confession, it takes us step by step, discipling us. Little by little, it gives us the milk first. Little by little, solid food. Then the meat. Then you're growing.
My Father Confession, I'll tell you a funny story. My father, confession. He said, the last thing I ever imagined. This is a very holy spiritual man. He said, you know what? I want you to download a game and start playing some puzzle games on your phone. I'm like, what?
I looked at him for prayer and he's giving me a prayer rule and how to do service and this and that and keep a mindset and all these things. I want you to That's even, like, look at the beauty and the care. Like, honestly, that made me love this man so much more. Because he knows, like, he felt like I need a break a little bit here and there and try to take some time just to kind of play.
I was, like, so happy. I'm like, really? I had to hear it again. I said, say that again, Abuna. Abuna means father in Arabic.
did that again he said yeah i want you to play some puzzle puzzle games you know just like oh my gosh this is so cool what kind of puzzle games do you play uh i play this block puzzle block master block blaster block blaster that's great that one's great yeah block blaster is awesome they got that on the plane too you know you can play on the screen yeah that one's good that's awesome
That's so cool. Something that you have at your church consistently, I've seen not only outside but inside are these statues of Jesus representing Matthew 25. And I know we mentioned it at the beginning, but that was also another thing I really wanted to talk to you about because...
i think we skip over in the book of james when he talks about partiality yes a lot i think we do um and that seemed that is such a prime beautiful example um that you guys are reaching here teaching here the interaction even it was so funny this morning when we were walking in as you were showing me the statue that lady that you guys had given a meal standing right there and i'm just like man this
It just breaks my heart that I personally feel like in America, you grow up and you say, hey, don't talk to the homeless guy because all they want is to use your money for bad stuff. And I shared with you earlier, it breaks my heart now, being a believer and reading that scripture.
That was one of the first scriptures that shook me to the core, shakes me to the core still this day, reading it over and over again. It's not just the fact that God's going to separate the sheep and the goats, and it's the fact that Jesus, when, when the ghost, they asked for like, when do we ever see you in that position? Yeah. Like, what are you talking about? What do you mean?
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