Chapter 1: What does Kenneth Copeland believe about prosperity and health?
It's hard for me to wrap my mind around this idea that God wants everyone to be wealthy, everyone to be healthy, and things like that.
No, he doesn't say that. He wants everybody to prosper. Being rich is more than enough to take care of what you have and enough left over.
to help somebody take care of themselves. The thing that's more attractive to people about this prosperity, health, and wealth message is those things rather than Jesus. Where do you find, hey, this is something I enjoy versus this is something that may be sitting on the throne of my heart? Before we get into this interview, there's a couple things that I want to tell you guys about.
Kenneth Copeland is a prosperity gospel preacher who teaches another gospel that says God wants every Christian to be healthy, wealthy, and prosper. And if you aren't doing those things as a Christian, then it is your fault. I want to clarify, I do not agree with the prosperity gospel. That's the whole reason why we sat down.
When we got the opportunity to do the first sit-down interview with Kenneth Copeland in over 15 years, I made it very clear to them. I was like, hey guys, I disagree. I'm going to be very respectful in the conversation, but I do not agree with the prosperity gospel.
And so this interview is a little bit different, where I sat back and asked a lot more questions from a journalistic perspective, whereas I want to understand where he gets this doctrine from. I really don't understand.
I want to know how he finds it in Scripture, what that looks like to the person, and ask a lot of questions and do more digging to let the idea speak for itself so that we can understand why the true gospel is important. You know, I believe Paul makes a good case in
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Chapter 2: How does Kenneth Copeland define true prosperity?
2 Corinthians, that sometimes God allows a thorn in our side to keep us humble and reliant on him. And so it was fun to hear his perspective and challenge him, even though I disagree. And I want to be very cautious by going into this. But also my heart was 1 Timothy 5. Kenneth Copeland is in the latter parts of his age. He's a little bit older. And I tried to do my best to
best to hold to 1 Timothy 5, which says, do not rebuke an old man, but appeal to him as a father. And so I tried to come at him with challenges as if I was challenging my father and not a harsh rebuke, quote unquote. So I pray that as you watch this interview, you listen to it. He's going to tell a lot of his stories.
And then when we get into the prosperity part, that the questions that I ask, I pray that they compel you in such a way to thank God for the true gospel and not that God just wants material things for our life, but that God wants us and that he is the prize, even if we lose everything, because that is the goal. I love you guys. Thank you again to the Copeland Network.
You guys were extremely hospitable to us and welcoming us to have this sit-down interview and enjoy this episode.
Chapter 3: What is the significance of the prosperity gospel according to Kenneth Copeland?
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I'm Bryce, and today... We have an incredible guest sitting down with us. I mean, from my knowledge, this man hasn't done a sit-down interview in over a decade. And so we're excited to welcome Kenneth Copeland with us this morning. How are you?
I'm doing good.
Good.
Well, thank you for being with us. All is well in the household of faith, so if you just stay with it, everything will work.
Amen. Well, thank you for being with us. I'm grateful that you're here and letting us come and visit you and be with you. But, you know, for anyone that doesn't know anything about you, you know, next generation, you know, who are you?
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Chapter 4: How does Kenneth Copeland reflect on his upbringing and faith journey?
I had on a white hat and sang Ghost Riders in the Sky. And Pat and I and the family are still very, very, very close. Awesome. Anyway, in coming to Fort Worth, there were things that took place here before. you know, in my life. And I had a hit record back in 1957 called Pledge of Love. I'd been in the Army. And then Terry, my first daughter, was born while I was in the service there.
And of course, you know, she's just precious. And of course, George Pearsons is my son-in-law, and he pastors EMIC Church. Anyway, I went out there trying to get in that entertainment business, and it didn't work. But out of that did come that recording contract, out of that deal. So a lot of pressure. For sure. And I gave up on it. I just quit. I went to my dad.
Now, my dad said, Kenneth, if I was to unzip your head, wouldn't anything but motorcycles and airplanes come out? Well, right there at the end of World War II, they saw that the war was practically over anyway. So there was a man by the name of Wooten in Abilene. And the Wooten Hotel and a number of things there.
And someone called my dad, I never did know who it was, and said, we're going to fly Mr. Wooten's airplane. Would you and your son like to come? Well, now, anyone that's familiar with Amelia Earhart, it was that little Lockheed Electra that she flew. That's what it was.
Oh, cool.
I can see it in my mind right now. The guy got everything settled in the back seat. I was already in the front. He looked over there at me and he said, don't you touch anything. I sat there like this and I was off the ground. Well, now we talk about now you have what you say, but I didn't know that then. And I was walking away and my dad had me by the hand. I was eight or nine years old.
I said, Daddy, I'm going to do that. He said, What? I'm going to fly airplanes. He said, Boy, you can do it. Well, then came to Fort Worth. And I remember my dad saying to my mother, A.W. and Venetta Copeland. And my grandfather was Chum Owens. He blew up his blood Cherokee. He went to sign in for the draft and they said, no, we can't use, that's your nickname, Chum. What's your name? W-E.
What does that stand for? William Elmer. He named himself that day. A Cherokee man. Anyway, and he's my grandfather. And just, oh, what a guy. Anyway, we did go out there on that old farm and spent a lot of time there. So he went to work for National Line Insurance Company there in Little Rock. It now has merged with other people. There was a car lot in Fort Worth at 1010 Texas Street.
I understand it isn't there anymore, but it was then. I worked there for a man by the name of Bill Golightly. And he also owned an aviation company. So I came home and told my dad, I said, you said you see that I got an education. I said, I want to learn how to fly. So he shook my hand. He said, all right, I'll stay with you till you get your commercial and you own your own.
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Chapter 5: What biblical principles support prosperity according to Kenneth Copeland?
Look down from your holy habitation from heaven and bless your people Israel and the land which you've given us. that you have sworn unto our fathers a land that flows with milk and honey. In the book of Exodus, he said, I'll have no poor in the Jubilee, the 50 years. In case you have poor, you send back everything they have. I won't have any poor people in my nation. Chapter 28.
It will come to pass, but you're going to have to believe it. It will come to pass if you will hearken diligently. Now, that's different from just reading once in a while. This is spending time searching the scriptures. This is spending time. Our Father, which art in heaven, hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread.
I was praying that. And the Lord said, and I'd been praying for a good while. Studying, listening, I just started praying. He said, you look up. Give us this day our daily bread. He said, what is your daily bread? He said, your daily bread is going to be to the nations. Oh, really? I didn't know we were going to come to a place where we are now. Let me give you my own personal situation.
We have a board of directors.
Chapter 6: How does prayer influence financial decisions in ministry?
They set my salary. I don't. They do, according to the IRS guidelines. And they don't let me be in a room when they do. And since the ministry has an airplane, If for some reason or other that I used that airplane before God, but for vacation or something for my family. There is an internal revenue thing for that, and I pay taxes on it.
The reason this ministry uses an airplane, as life is saying, is because we started out, and I was praying about this. We were just getting started, and we were there in Tulsa, and I came in from school. I said, Gloria, I have a disturbance in my spirit today. Now, the man that owned that house we were renting, He was a lawyer. Well, I want to stay four more years and go to seminary.
And I had him write the Kenneth Copeland Evangelistic Association. I'd already had him do the papers. So the Arkansas River, just one house, and I was in the riverbed there. I went down in there and prayed in the Spirit until it was just about dark. And all I heard again was nations, nations, nations. So I started up out of there, and the Lord said, Your wife is precious to me.
i have given her to you she is to you what temper is to steal well i was in metal shop in high school and you had to temper i was making tools and you had to temper it or you'd break it and uh but this nation's thing came up but i pretty well forgot about it so school's out i'm ready to go i'm what i'm gonna do here in this summer i don't know i'm just and i sat down there i had my suit on i had my bible
Chapter 7: What personal experiences illustrate the impact of faith on finances?
And I had my legal pad. And I said, okay, Lord. And down in my spirit, he said, I want you to go back to Fort Worth. Lord, now he said, I'll take care of you. You know what happened to you in your hometown. I don't want to go back to Fort Worth. The greatest part of your destiny is there. Phone rang. Lord said, Brother Nichols wants to talk to you. Well, he was pastor of Grace Temple Church.
And so Gloria and I and John and Kelly were rebaptized and watered there in that church. So he's in my pastor. When can you come to me for a meeting? I said, well, Brother Nichols, I'd like to say I need to check my schedule, but I don't have one. Now, we had had a devastating car wreck at Marshall, Texas, and Halloween night before that.
Chapter 8: How can believers navigate the balance between prosperity and faith?
And the only car I had was an old worn-out Oldsmobile that had about 90,000 miles on it when we got it, and that's the only car I had. I'm nursing this thing down the highway. But of course, when I got there, I had another car to drive. At least I was, for my folks, I'd say that about folks. We walked in there, and mother came in there and said, Gloria, come on. I said, Gloria.
I said, Mama, you got any tapes? Yeah, look in there. They had a thing there. The previous owner had a home screen. They just set this thing out and set this tape recorder on it. You know, a thing about that big. There's a white box. On the first side, you can write your own ticket with God. And the flip side, Paul's revelation. Kenneth E. Hagin.
That's the first time I ever heard anything like that in my life. I said, Gloria, we have to have everything this man had. And that started that. And the teachings that came from both of these men. Now, I want you to notice this. This is very important, the way this is worded. It will, it said. What verse is that that you're in? Chapter 28, verse 1.
It will come to pass if you shall listen diligently to the voice of the Lord your God. to observe and do all his commandments, which I command thee this day, that the Lord God will set you high above all nations on the earth. In God's mind, that's everybody in the nation. You can't have a nation without people. All these blessings shall come on you and overtake you.
If you hearken unto the voice, if you listen to, listen to me. Blessed shall you be in the city. Blessed shall you be in the field. Let's stop right there. Let's talk about Job. He was a very wealthy guy. Oh, yeah. The only person that did what the, there wasn't but one sin. He will curse you to your face. And God said, but you can't touch his life.
His wife did it, not Job, and brought the devil down on the family. He did it throughout this whole thing. There was a blessing wall around him. The hedge of protection. Yeah. It's the same blessing. He said, you've blessed him. I can't get in there to him. Blessing is more than just what you do when you sneeze. It is a power from God. You can't break it. You can't get through it.
It's an invisible force. In many cases, it is translated very happy, but it takes diligence. It takes a concerted, diligent study of this book.
Yeah, with the, like, okay, so this message of prosperity and abundance and things like that. I know you go to a lot of prisons and do a lot of prison ministry. I think that's another thing that's hard for me to wrap my mind around for guys who are in prison. I've been to a state prison in Georgia where most of those men are in there with life without parole.
Okay, let me ask you, what does he need to prosper? He just needs Jesus. There you are. That's his prosperity message.
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