Menu
Sign In Search Podcasts Charts People & Topics Add Podcast API Pricing
Podcast Image

The Bulwark Podcast

Adam Kinzinger: Trump Has Never Seemed this Scared

21 Nov 2025

Transcription

Chapter 1: What are the recent challenges facing Donald Trump?

0.031 - 18.267 Tim Miller

Ever wonder why you have insurance for your car or home, but not your digital life? Meet Webroot Total Protection, your digital bodyguard that includes antivirus, identity protection, VPN, cloud backup, and more. With plans for individuals and families, Webroot takes the guessing game out of cybersecurity so you can get back to living your best life online.

0

18.508 - 30.038 Tim Miller

Go to webroot.com forward slash audio and get 50% off today. That's webroot.com slash audio to get 50% off today. Live a better digital life with Webroot because peace of mind shouldn't be optional.

0
0

43.957 - 62.775 Adam Kinzinger

Hello and welcome to the Bulwark Podcast. I'm your host, Tim Miller. We are back with a fave. He is a former member of Congress from Illinois. He served in the Air Force and on the January 6th Committee. He can do some bicep curls and he's the subject of a new documentary, The Last Republican, which is available on Apple TV, Prime Video and other platforms. Adam Kinzinger, what's up, man?

0

62.755 - 65.342 Unknown

Hey, I'm at the Bulwark studio today.

Chapter 2: How is Adam Kinzinger's documentary related to his political journey?

65.402 - 66.706 Unknown

You're not here.

0

66.726 - 77.777 Adam Kinzinger

I know it sucks. I did get to see you in person. Give those arms a squeeze and see your wife. And it was, you know, it's a funeral. So I bet it was still good to see you. But I had to pop up to New York.

0

77.757 - 104.406 Unknown

you know what's funny is they uh they they did the old uh like put out some pictures you know from the funeral like the ap pictures and they did put out one of sophie and i but we're laughing in it and we're the only ones where people are laughing i'm like why what were you laughing about do you think i don't know probably george eight you know george made a couple jokes so probably future congressional candidate oh no george w you meant not george w yeah yeah or else uh sophie and i were laughing about something i don't know but i

0

104.386 - 115.835 Adam Kinzinger

I wanted a couple more jokes at the funeral. Can I give notes on the eulogies? Please do. The grandchildren's eulogies were really great. And W is like a character. So he was just an MW character. And Liz was obviously good.

0

Chapter 3: What does the Epstein case reveal about Trump and his associates?

116.256 - 132.517 Adam Kinzinger

I wanted one of them to give me a joke about Dick Cheney accidentally shooting the guy, though. I know. I thought about that, too. I feel like you've got to just own it. I feel like you've got to just own it. And there was a prime spot. One of the grandchildren, and again, not to criticize a young person's eulogy for their grandfather, because she was great, and I was getting emotional.

0

132.857 - 150.199 Adam Kinzinger

But she has a line where she's like, you know, whatever they called him, Grandpa Dick, sometimes would let us sit in the front row of the fishing boat, and he wouldn't get mad even if we accidentally hooked him with our rod. And I was like, this is a prime spot to say... because he has some experience with that.

0

150.92 - 162.925 Unknown

Tim, I honest to God at that exact moment, thought the same thing. I remember at one point in the, in the funeral being like, they should joke about him shooting somebody in the face. And it was exactly there. Cause it would have been perfect. Like he hooked some people, but that's all right.

0

Chapter 4: How does the current economic situation impact Trump's political standing?

162.945 - 165.51 Unknown

He has no place to judge. You shot a guy in the face, right?

0

165.659 - 182.661 Adam Kinzinger

Well, if you're doing a eulogy, send your drafts to me and Adam. We'll just make sure you're not missing anything. We've got a bunch to discuss today. I guess we should start with Donald Trump saying that Democratic lawmakers should be, that they have done sedition, which is punishable by death. That was a bleat that Trump put out.

0

183.001 - 191.312 Adam Kinzinger

This is in response to something we talked a little bit about with Susan Glasser on yesterday's pod. But in case you missed that, you're supposed to be listening every day, but just in case you missed that.

0

191.292 - 209.993 Adam Kinzinger

There was a group of Democratic House and Senate veterans who put out a video that was basically saying, you know, to the men and women in uniform, if you get an illegal order, you shouldn't follow it. You should follow your oath and the code of conduct. I played the clip yesterday of Stephen Miller saying this was insurrection.

0

210.053 - 221.567 Adam Kinzinger

His boss went a little bit further saying this is sedition and punishable by death. I want to hear both your reaction to just the video that the Democratic veterans did as a fellow veteran and the message and then what you think about Trump.

222.188 - 225.031 Unknown

Yeah, so on the video itself, I think it's fine.

Chapter 5: What are the implications of Trump's comments on sedition and execution?

225.171 - 246.517 Unknown

I think it's good. It's just the question is in what context. If they're saying it, and I didn't see the whole video, if they were saying like, hey, these current strikes on drug boats, those are illegal and you should refuse to execute it, then I think that's a bridge too far because you can't put necessarily – geopolitical decisions on an individual soldier or airman or whatever.

0

246.537 - 265.945 Unknown

They did not give that example. Okay, then good. So then in that case, what they said is not – shouldn't even be controversial. In fact, I tweeted it yesterday. I came home and tweeted military members should refuse illegal orders. That's basic constitution. The fact though that they then jump into – While they're talking about the drug boats, they're talking about what Donald Trump is doing.

0

265.985 - 275.403 Unknown

That says more about the Republicans defending him. The fact is, as a military member, it is your responsibility not to do an illegal order. And that's basic.

0

Chapter 6: How does the discussion around Marjorie Taylor Greene affect the GOP?

275.423 - 297.207 Unknown

It shouldn't lead to threats of execution, for God's sakes. On the second part of it, having been at Cheney's funeral and recognizing that probably even three-quarters of the people in there were not Dick Cheney fans, but they were there because they honored the fact that this is a man that did service to his country. They honored that he was an honorable person.

0

297.367 - 302.456 Adam Kinzinger

Rachel Maddow was there, for one example, of somebody who wasn't probably – Probably not a huge Dick Cheney fan.

0

302.476 - 322.7 Unknown

Yeah, yeah. But then leaving that and seeing this time where there's like the left, the center and the right, some on the right, not many, you know, all coming together to celebrate this man's life. And then seeing the contrast when I got cell phone reception that Donald Trump's calling for execution. It is just it was a perfect kind of example, visual example of how far we've fallen.

0

323.101 - 336.808 Unknown

And so I'll say this to the members of Congress that said, you know, to the military members, don't execute an illegal order. Keep saying it. First off, it's your right as an American to say it. Secondly, it is the responsibility of the military to not execute an illegal order, period.

0

337.7 - 341.646 Adam Kinzinger

I'm always cautious when I say this because I want the Democrats to do more.

Chapter 7: What insights does Kinzinger provide about the upcoming Texas Senate race?

341.846 - 359.653 Adam Kinzinger

I'm always like do more, try things. Not everything is going to work. And so when I offer some feedback on something they try, I don't want it to mean like don't do anything or that I'm being a hypocrite. So I want them to do stuff. These folks are veterans, so I trust their judgment on what other members of the military need or want to hear right now.

0

359.713 - 380.461 Adam Kinzinger

And they're probably hearing more from active duty folks who are worried about the types of orders they're getting either with regards to – Probably mostly with the military in the streets of our country and posse comitatus. But just as a political matter, there's so many places to go at Trump right now. I'm not sure this is like the sharpest spot to be picking a fight with him on.

0

380.941 - 397.425 Adam Kinzinger

I've watched that much Fox, but I do watch Fox on the plane when I get an excuse to. So when I was flying up here, I watched it. And like a lot of coverage of this on Fox. And that says to me that Fox thinks this is – Much better turf for them to be discussing than, I don't know, the economy, Epstein, Trump's other behaviors, the war. What do you make of that?

0

Chapter 8: What is the significance of the betting markets in politics?

397.625 - 416.475 Unknown

They're looking for any way, I think, to get off what's been going on. Donald Trump's losing his mind. Even the call to execute is losing his mind. So they want to go back to the reason. What was the thing that people felt was inappropriate? Here's where I kind of at the beginning was starting to say where I would have some concerns with how they did it is, you know,

0

416.827 - 435.342 Unknown

When you start saying that it's up to the individual what an illegal order is, I think you put an unfair burden on your average soldier. So first off, if you're in the streets as a National Guardsman, an E3, which is kind of like a basic enlisted or whatever, it is not on you.

0

435.322 - 458.986 Unknown

to go through your moral decision matrix to figure out if you being on the streets in DC or in Philadelphia or wherever you end up going is a constitutional order. It is the responsibility of your high ranking officers. If there's an order like that, where your responsibility comes in as an individual member is, uh, if you get an order to shoot an American citizen, right?

0

459.426 - 468.635 Unknown

So something that obvious, if your Lieutenant or captain says, Hey, you know, Kent state shoot those protesters or whatever, that is your responsibility to say no.

0

468.996 - 488.295 Unknown

And so I think we need to be very clear because the one thing I don't want to do is take a well-meaning kind of, you know, E3, E4 in the, in the army guard, have them take some stand that they think is moral that actually really shouldn't have that kind of, you know, really isn't a moral stand really is not, you know, refusing an illegal order.

488.275 - 506.25 Adam Kinzinger

I do think Trump's reaction is maybe in part because he thinks this is good ground for him to fight on, but also the stench is on him. And I don't really mean the stench that you were talking about before, about how he literally smells bad. That's always on him. So he does literally smell bad, but he also has the lame duck stink starting to get on him.

506.23 - 531.124 Adam Kinzinger

in a very real way you know i'm sometimes hesitant to do the like trump's really losing it now like you know what i mean because it's like trump has always been like kind of crazy and and an emotional emotional roller coaster and up and down but you do look at it and it's like quiet piggy he yells at a reporter yeah he's now yelling at democrats and saying that they should be killed it feels like somebody that's flailing right now in his political standing

531.273 - 548.884 Unknown

Yeah, me too. I actually put out on my sub stack yesterday, shameless pitch, follow me, a six minute video after the funeral when I had heard like what had happened. It's like, dude. And that was kind of my take is this doesn't mean that Donald Trump is now on a permanent downhill trajectory, but. I think he feels cornered.

549.405 - 570.612 Unknown

This is the first time probably every Republican has voted against him on something, and I don't know if we ever did in the first administration, but certainly this administration on the Epstein list, for instance. He was forced to come out and be like, fine, release it. He's obviously afraid of it coming out. This has obviously set him on a trajectory of kind of like self-destruction or like –

Comments

There are no comments yet.

Please log in to write the first comment.