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The Bulwark Podcast

Bill Kristol: Call the Pool Police

22 Jun 2026

Transcription

Transcript generated automatically by AI and may contain errors.

Chapter 1: What is the significance of Trump's actions at the Reflecting Pool?

0.031 - 26.933

This country will bring you the happiest people in the world. And home-made delicious food. If you plan to eat lentils or waffles in the morning, you will find home-made food from your family. Home-made. From this country. And from the S-group grocery stores. This country will bring you motherhood. And home-made wispy porridge.

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27.453 - 39.808

Then look for a spare piece for the small or the bigger, so you can find home-made products from your family to taste at any time. Home-made. From this country. And from the S-group grocery stores.

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53.997 - 62.656 Tim Miller

Hello and welcome to the Bullard Podcast. I'm your host, Tim Miller. It is Monday, so of course we are here with editor-at-large Bill Kristol, who is free.

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Chapter 2: How is the media responding to Trump's investigation into vandalism?

62.696 - 89.623 Tim Miller

We're all walking free, though we are watching very closely one of our colleagues, who is the first person down there doing intrepid reporting at the Reflecting Pool. noticing, or maybe not noticing, but documenting that the blue paint was coming off. Chipping would be the most generous thing you could say to Donald Trump's reflecting pool paint man. Huge portions of it were coming off.

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89.603 - 97.994 Tim Miller

And in the intervening period, we've heard that there are arrests happening for any troublemakers who are observing the president's failures.

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98.654 - 118.8 Bill Kristol

As Andrew pointed out this morning, it's funny, but maybe not so funny because people actually have arrested the 67-year-old bicyclist who showed up and seems to have simply reached into the pool to see what it feels like with all the algae and the part of the bottom coming off there. And I think he has been arrested. I mean, and he has to...

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118.78 - 143.05 Tim Miller

i don't know get bail and get a lawyer and all this like everything you know it is uh one part indiocracy one part menace you know there are elements of it that are concerning the north korean elements you know people cannot observe our government's incompetence and waste and and buffoonery you know without fear that the state will come after them to example of this

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143.03 - 162.416 Tim Miller

Judge Box of Wine was on Fox News over the weekend speaking to Peter Doocy, and they talked about how seriously they're taking the investigation regarding any so-called vandals of the reflecting pool, and that includes those in the press. Let's listen to that. Trump's got a Crimestoppers tip for you.

162.436 - 174.623 Tim Miller

He says lightweight ABC reporter Jonathan Karl was seen sticking his hand into the pool and trying to rip the rubber off the surface. Judge, is Jonathan Karl from ABC in trouble?

175.109 - 201.673

Well, you know, it depends. You know, anyone who is in a position of vandalizing or attempting to vandalize the reflecting pool will face the criminal justice system in D.C. Look, the president has made it a priority to make D.C. not only safe, but beautiful. And there are several citations that have been handed out to individuals. And these are cases that will be prosecuted to the full extent.

202.042 - 213.656 Tim Miller

Prosecuted. Both of those people have a face and voice for print. I'm not sure what Fox is doing there with their lineup, but prosecuted to the fullest extent. This is the world we're in.

213.916 - 214.917 Bill Kristol

It is farcical.

Chapter 3: What are the implications of JD Vance's Catholic conversion story?

215.518 - 230.777 Bill Kristol

Mostly it's farcical, and it's actually doing Trump damage, which is good. I think everyone's just laughing at him, both at what's happened, of course, with the pool itself and the algae and the paint chips, as you say, to be charitable, if you can call them that, huge chunks of paint. the whole bottom of the pool, basically.

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231.218 - 252.754 Bill Kristol

And then this attempt to intimidate people from going and looking at it, or maybe even feeling what it's like, or pulling up one of these loose pieces of stuff. Trump has invented this vandalism, capital V, he puts on it, the vandalism of 250 feet, then I think it became 300 feet, I noticed in some later tweet. Someone went in and gashed the pool for 300 feet. That's kind of a big gash, you know?

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252.734 - 270.41 Bill Kristol

I feel stupid even taking it like quasi seriously. I think this thing is on camera 24 seven. No one went into the pool and gashed the bottom. And this is the big lie thing. But here we have Fox sort of treating it like a real thing. And I don't know this. As I say, there could be some people who are being harassed.

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271.091 - 292.07 Tim Miller

Yeah. I mean, Peter, do you see they're basically agitating for John Carl to be arrested? And he doesn't like this fake laughing voice. But honestly, I mean, you're interviewing the person that arrested the sandwich man. So, I mean, Judge Jeanine is going to do investigations. It's kind of reminiscent of a 90s movie with a school principal.

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Chapter 4: How do recent events reflect on Tulsi Gabbard's political affiliations?

292.511 - 306.184 Tim Miller

It's kind of reminiscent of a Simpsons or a Ferris Bueller stay-off type situation where you have a grumpy principal. It's like, anything you do to embarrass me, you'll get detention. There's that element to this, which is not how things should be going in a free country.

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306.424 - 325.702 Bill Kristol

I think we're enough of a free country still that it is more farcical than... I agree. Unlike some of the other things he's doing, which really are probably more menacing than farcical. But look, it's very important, I think, to – I was on a call earlier this morning. Some lawyers were debating – there's actually some lawsuit that's pending from some historic preservation group.

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326.383 - 339.255 Bill Kristol

This was filed four weeks ago. You shouldn't be messing around with a reflective pool this way. There are processes you should go through before you change a historic site like that. And I think they're thinking, the lawyers, of revitalizing this suit in light of subsequent developments. Probably not a bad idea.

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339.235 - 345.622 Bill Kristol

And there was a little bit of an argument, well, isn't it taking it too seriously and all that? But I think the more news, the more attention the reflecting pool gets, the better.

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345.642 - 355.892 Bill Kristol

We're only what, he's giving a speech there Wednesday, Trump, isn't he, at the beginning of this great American fair, whatever the heck it is, you know, that all the artists pulled out of and that he decided he would give this opening speech at.

356.513 - 369.006 Bill Kristol

And I'm hopeful that, A, no one will pay any attention to it, but B, to the degree people pay attention, it's entirely to take a look at the reflecting pool, not to, of course, listen to Trump's interpretation of our 250th birthday, so.

368.986 - 371.571 Tim Miller

Well, there was a dead duckling in the reflecting pool over the weekend.

371.591 - 380.587 Bill Kristol

Yeah, that's bad. Don't you think? That's bad. I mean, I think you did this stuff for a living once 10, 15 years ago. And I think a dead duckling is not good. It's not good imagery.

380.608 - 393.09 Tim Miller

It's kind of the opposite of Bernie's bird. Remember when the bird landed on Bernie's podium and all the Bernie people made a big deal of that? It's sort of like the opposite to that. It's the dead bird. The taxpayers will pay. They'll be paying more to fix that.

Chapter 5: What insights can be drawn from Brexit's impact on British politics?

393.19 - 414.747 Tim Miller

He posted work will begin immediately on fixing the reflecting pool. So the bill will go up for that, just like for, you know, the ballroom and the bunker. Another no-bid contract. Another no-bid contract to a guy that looks like he's a bad guy from a 1980s movie who was part of the gym traffic scandal. The guy part of the gym traffic scandal.

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414.767 - 416.83 Bill Kristol

Yeah, I know. So you can't make it up, right?

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416.81 - 435.914 Tim Miller

Fucking ridiculous. Okay. Well, justice for the bicycling men. And we will continue to keep an eye on the story. Let's move on to Iran. The Strait of Hormuz was closed again over the weekend in response to Israel and Hezbollah continuing fighting in Iran. in Southern Lebanon and attacks back and forth there.

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436.535 - 455.702 Tim Miller

If you look at the analysis of kind of just monitoring the ships going through the Strait, and it does seem like that there's maybe ghost ships going through, et cetera, but just the ones, you know, that you can monitor. Before the war started, you know, I was looking at a chart. It looked like about, you know, depending on the day, 60, 70, 80 ships were going through.

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455.742 - 477.94 Tim Miller

That went down to basically zero. We hit a peak. After Treaty of Versailles II, electric boogaloo of 15 ships making it through. That number went back down to three yesterday as Iran closed the strait again. Meanwhile, the vice president and the president's son-in-law are in Switzerland negotiating. Yeah, quote negotiating.

478.04 - 496.74 Bill Kristol

They seem to be giving Iran even more to try to get that straight open again. And since, as Trump correctly said it, the longer it stays closed, the more problems for the global economy. This thing is ridiculous to follow every twist and turn. I feel like part of me thought writing warning shots this morning, I don't have to write about Iran. It's kind of important.

496.76 - 506.25 Bill Kristol

But then I thought, oh, my God, another like fake toughness from Trump, fake negotiations with Vance, fake concessions here, fake achievements there. The IAEA might get back in.

Chapter 6: How does the World Cup serve as a counterpoint to Trumpism?

506.23 - 525.194 Bill Kristol

I believe they were in there. That was the whole point of the Obama deal. They were in it in a very complicated and serious way, actually. And now Iran's vaguely promised, yeah, we'll let some of these inspectors in, maybe. Vance says they promised. You don't even know if they promised, honestly. Meanwhile, we're giving up sanctions. We're giving money right and left to them. They're doing fine.

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525.374 - 526.956 Bill Kristol

And that's going to continue to be the case.

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527.257 - 549.771 Tim Miller

Yeah, so that was the big kind of new quote-unquote news this morning. The inspectors are coming in. They also, the vice president said this at a press conference this morning. Jared Kushner came up with a very interesting idea during the negotiations. Kushner and the Qataris figured this out together, Vance said. It is kind of interesting. I mean, we had the big signing on Wednesday, right?

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549.751 - 574.334 Tim Miller

So it feels like the ideas about the sanctions relief and the inspectors kind of should have been previously to the MOU. But anyway, nitpicking. Jared Kushner, according to Bansky, with an interesting idea, which is that when we unfreeze the money, for Iran that will then actually go to buy American soy, American corn and American wheat for the benefit of the Iranian people.

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575.095 - 588.212 Tim Miller

What Jared and the Qataris and the entire team here at Bergen stock accomplished to me as a classic Trump deal, maybe true, but not in the way that the vice president means a classic Trump deal. But like all of this is,

588.192 - 607.72 Tim Miller

absurd and it's desperate and it's just like oh okay well we've now we took some heat that we're giving the iranians so much money so it's like it's going to go to the american farmers now it's like does anybody believe this did the iranians even care why is jared there i i can't like we have a we have an agent of the saudi government who doesn't work for our government

607.7 - 611.689 Tim Miller

who the vice president is crediting with being the point person on this negotiation?

612.09 - 628.102 Bill Kristol

I thought one interesting side sort of minor aspect of it was Vance dragging Jared. I mean, mentioning Jared so prominently, right, that Jared negotiated this very well. So don't you think this is Vance trying to make – This is Trump's deal. This is Trump's... The Trump family's involved.

Chapter 7: What are the current challenges in US-Iran relations?

628.122 - 638.272 Bill Kristol

This isn't just... They try to put me out there as the kind of, you know, sacrifice me as the sacrificial lamb on this. But I'm working closely with Jared. It's also pathetic on eight different levels.

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638.432 - 662.439 Tim Miller

Or maybe Jared isn't charged yet. It's pathetic. Maybe he's not trying to do anything. Maybe he is just totally cucked by Jared and the Trump family. And he's like, whatever you say, sir. I don't know. It's hard to say. And they posted... The Qataris posted a picture of... Jared, JD, and a Qatari representative in what looks like a hotel conference room.

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662.459 - 684.378 Tim Miller

There's a Keurig machine in the back, and they're hunched over a single laptop. And JD has a woman's ID card put into the computer. So I don't know. Maybe he forgot his passcode. Jared doesn't have a security clearance. He's in there. We have a foreign agent. And then we have the vice president, who I guess didn't have his... His password said some other woman's card is in there.

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684.678 - 703.816 Tim Miller

And like, that's the picture that they're putting out. And it's like the Iranians are kind of just chilling. Yeah. It's like all of the optics of this about who has the power in the negotiation. And there was a video from the initial meeting in Switzerland. And the Iranians didn't show up to the open press part of the meeting.

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704.056 - 719.452 Tim Miller

It was just kind of Jared milling about talking to a couple of Gulf state leaders. I mean, he is just clearly. you know, the beta party and the negotiation right now as we are like begging them to get the straight back open and also giving them money.

Chapter 8: How is Giorgia Meloni's leadership perceived in Italy?

719.913 - 738.356 Bill Kristol

And I guess was that picture put out, photo put out by the Qataris? I think so, probably, right? Yeah, by the Qataris. Yeah, so they're relishing their status here. They're a country that we have had in the past some real issues with, I believe, tolerant, you know, Hamas is headquartered there and stuff, but, you know, they're great and we're happy to use their card for the computer.

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738.376 - 740.779 Bill Kristol

No issues there, no security problems.

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740.759 - 743.004 Tim Miller

They're giving us the plane after all they're spying on us.

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743.145 - 748.498 Bill Kristol

That was a great gift. It only cost the taxpayers a billion dollars to retrofit it to make it both secure.

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748.658 - 768.274 Tim Miller

So we could look for all the little bugs that they put in there. Yeah, also the thing, JD's walking around where he's milling about the Pakistanis are also there. And JD's like, we love the Pakistanis. Thank you. It's like, weren't they hiding Osama bin Laden? Actually, didn't we have to send a CLT-6 in there in secret at night?

768.654 - 779.868 Tim Miller

If we liked the Pakistanis so much, couldn't we have negotiated the arrest of Osama bin Laden? Would we have needed to fly in under cover of darkness and kill him? The whole thing is absurd.

780.428 - 786.696 Bill Kristol

This is Trump's foreign policy, right? We're in great terms with Qatar, the Pakistanis. We're getting in great terms with Iran. Right.

786.676 - 811.823 Tim Miller

traditional democratic allies people ukraine who are fighting for their survival and for liberal democracy we're not we don't we don't care that much about them um yeah reuters also said i just i should note that even once the straight gets back open you are going to have to fill out a tps report before you can get through it's got to be submitted through three mullah bobs and uh you got to do it 48 hours in advance cover sheet's got to be right and so uh we'll see how that shakes out

811.803 - 833.018 Tim Miller

I wanted to play a little cope from Fox about how they're feeling about things. It's really interesting to watch. You know, there are kind of two factions on Fox, right? There is kind of like the America first. We shouldn't be involved there at all. Like, whatever. Who cares? Like, we should be humiliated and just let the Iranians have whatever they want. Get out of there.

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