Charles Duhigg: What MAGA Can Teach Democrats
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What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
Hello and welcome to the Bulwark Podcast. I'm your host, Tim Miller. Okay, here's the deal. Today is the State of the Union, as you guys know. I hate the State of the Union. Hate it. I hated it even when I liked the president just fine. It's antiquated. It's stupid. It's all the puffery. It's all the reasons why I left D.C., But, you know, I got a job to do. I'm going to suffer for y'all. It is my Lenten obligation. So here's our content plan for the State of the Union. I'm going to give myself and you a brief respite from the speech fun to trade this morning. So we have a very fun off-the-news guest I've been wanting to bring in for a while. We're going to get to him in a second. Over on TNL with Sarah and JVL, we're going to cover everything news politics campaigns besides the speech.
So you can go get your campaign fix on the Next Level feed. And then tonight... It's the only way I can tolerate it. I'm going to be mystery science theatering through the speech on YouTube. So you can come hang out with me on YouTube. And then after, we have a very special guest coming. He's a very good talker. And so hopefully that will ease the pain of having to have watched Donald Trump for three hours or however long he's going to go. And then if you're hearing this on Wednesday morning, you can get the State of the Union reaction stuff over on the Bulwark Takes feed. So that's the schedule. It's a content marathon. I'm your humble servant. Soak it all in. Today's show, we've got a Pulitzer Prize winning reporter at The New Yorker.
His latest book, like a year and a half ago now, that book is called Super Communicators. It's Charles Duhigg. How you doing, man?
Good. How are you? Thanks for having me on. And I'm looking forward to the Mystery Science Theater 3000 State of the Union tonight.
If I had to watch it anyway, why would I sit on the couch and subject my husband to it?
Exactly. You might as well have two robots with you. Yeah, let him watch. You guys can just make comments this whole time.
He can watch whatever, Housewives, and I can sit here with you all and snipe at him. And that seems at least borderline tolerable. I want to get to the book, and I think there are a lot of lessons in Super Communicators for all of us, for what the mission is here, ostensibly, which is persuading people to the benefits of liberal democracy. But you also have some lessons, some political lessons in your latest New Yorker article, which was headlined, What MAGA Can Teach Dems About Organizing. But I have to tell you this. I'm just coming clean. Yeah. I didn't even know you wrote it because I did not like the graphic. No shade to the artist. Okay. But I hated it because this graphic, many people may even have seen on social media because this article went viral.
It's all of the blue fingers pointing at each other and all of the red fingers pointing at blue. And I feel like this is a little bit of a misnomer because there's a lot of red fingers pointed at each other as well. Absolutely. Yeah. So as you always can do in these sort of situations, it's an oversimplification. And so I was embittered by that. And so I didn't click on the article. I finally clicked on it, I don't know, yesterday or Sunday. And the text is amazing. So, you know, don't judge a book by its cover, as you say. There are a lot of important insights in there. So talk to us about why you decided to write this. It's a little bit off of, you know, your normal beat. What was the genesis of it?
It's true. I mean, the basic question I was asking is, you know, if on the left we're so dismissive of MAGA and we say like they have their ideas are illegitimate, they are beholden to this guy who's completely mercurial. If that's true, why have they been so successful, right? Like what is the science behind the growth of MAGA? And I think it's important to create a distinction between Donald Trump and MAGA because I think that distinction exists at this point. He was the progenitor, the biggest cheerleader of MAGA. But MAGA now has its own life outside of Donald Trump.
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Chapters
4 chapters
1
What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
0:13–7:30
2
What insights does Charles Duhigg offer about MAGA's political organizing?
7:30–20:14
3
How does Duhigg compare DARE and MAD in terms of effectiveness?
20:14–30:58
4
What lessons can Democrats learn from MAGA's organizing strategies?
30:58–58:16
Speakers
2 identifiedMore from The Bulwark Daily
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