Chapter 1: What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
Hello and welcome to the Bullard Podcast. I'm your host, Tim Miller. Delighted to welcome back to the show the host of Crooked Media's What a Day podcast, a Michigan football superfan, liberalitarian icon. It's Jane Koston.
Hello.
Jane, it's been a minute and a half.
I'm thrilled to be back.
Yeah. What have I been doing? What's been happening in the booking department at this podcast? You know, we're going to get you in the heavy rotation. I guess we'll see how you do.
Well, you know, I've got a couple more applications and we'll see how this goes.
We're going to start by talking about a friend of the podcast, Howard Nutlick. He was testifying this morning in front of the Senate, and they were discussing the myriad times that he was mentioned in the Epstein files. I want to play for you a little audio of Senator Chris Van Hollen of Maryland asking him about the details.
The way you described very emphatically your first encounter with him in his apartment, said you were disgusted, would never have any contact with him again. Did you in fact make the visit to Jeffrey Epstein's private island
I did have lunch with him as I was on a boat going across on a family vacation. My wife was with me, as were my four children and nannies. I don't recall why we did it. Oh, you're a nanny.
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Chapter 2: What recent revelations have emerged about Howard Lutnick and Jeffrey Epstein?
My children were there. That would have been like 2012. Yeah. And then they kept emailing and were having nice times.
Chapter 3: What was Howard Lutnick's testimony regarding his relationship with Epstein?
We've talked about this a little bit, Tim. At a baseline level, there's one reason you spend this much time with Jeffrey Epstein. And if it wasn't for that reason, what were you doing? He was terrible at emailing. Most of his emails don't make any sense. I had the extreme misfortune of watching part of the...
documentary Steve Bannon was working on with him to a pro Epstein documentary to counter the Netflix documentary, Jeffrey Epstein, filthy rich, because Bannon was like, Oh, we got to get your side of the story. And they spend like a long time discussing the fact that Jesus never wrote anything down. And I'm like this year, sex offender King, this guy, this is what we're doing.
This was worth all of this. This guy, maybe the lunch was really good.
Yeah. I want to kind of answer your rhetorical there a little bit. What else could you have been emailing Jeffrey Epstein about besides child sex trafficking? Well, in 2018, 13 years after Lutnick said he would never be in the room with a disgusting person again, he tried to enlist Jeffrey Epstein in a NIMBY campaign to block a museum from expanding near them.
So that was one reason that they reached out. They got into a business partnership acquiring a tech company between 2012 and 2014. Yeah. He was in the room with this disgusting person a lot after 2005, a lot. And, you know, maybe he thinks it makes it better that he brought his children to the island. Not really so for me. It kind of makes it worse for me.
No, no. Also, I love that he needed to. He was like, and the nanny, just to be clear. Because I'm like, this poor nanny didn't ask for any of this.
Because I didn't parent. I wasn't parenting. Just to be clear, I wasn't actually parenting on this boat trip to the Caribbean.
Not quite like Elon Musk level. I will say the Elon Musk emails from Christmas morning being like, get me the fuck out of here. I hate all these people. What's going on in your island? What's the craziest day slash night where I could be not near anyone I am allegedly genetically related to? I can't imagine what Elon Musk Christmas is like. I'm horrified by the thoughts.
I just may imagine like, I don't know, some sort of Android illusion. But like every email, I'm just like, you're all terrible. You're all terrible. Except for like Tina Brown. Tina Brown. And Julie K. Brown, who was indeed a problem, just as they thought.
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Chapter 4: How did Howard Lutnick's actions reflect on his character and past statements?
But why is he doing it? I don't like on the one hand, they've broken every norm imaginable. Like they don't really seem to care about following the laws. Like Donald Trump just makes rules be executive fiat. They've got they've completely neutered Congress in every imaginable way. But in this specific area of where they get called to testify and humiliated, they're still doing it.
And on some level, I enjoy that because it's good for those of us who want to watch them be humiliated. It doesn't seem like what you would do if you were planning on becoming Mussolini. Like, why would Mussolini send the people in his circle to get pantsed in front of the Liga?
Yeah, I think that there's a sense I have some semblance of hope in just like basic, not institutional norms because those fell away a while back. But I do think that the one thing this administration cares a lot about, though they will pretend that they don't, they care a lot about perception management, a lot about it.
And so you can see that with Kristi Noem saying that the Department of Homeland Security, once they figure out the budget stuff, because obviously they're still debating about DHS reforms, they will send federal immigration officers body cams. Which you would think that there's a version of the story where Stephen Miller is running all of this and he just says, fuck all of you. I hate you.
I hate everyone. Nobody cares. Right. But that's not what they're doing. And there does seem to be. a sense like, yes, Donald Trump will invent polls in which he's doing amazing. Like, I think that over the last couple of days, he was posting about how like, you know, I'm doing so great in this poll, but it was like a poll of Trump supporters, which like, sure, like, whatever.
But I think that the perception management is still key. There is a sense of like, We want to be liked. And I think that that actually, in a funny way, ties back to, you know, I've been thinking a lot about the alleged conservative uproar over the Bad Bunny halftime show, which unless you are being paid to be mad about it, you are not actually mad about it.
Like there are people who are getting their checks there. And I'm like, God bless you. That mortgage payment came and you were like, well, looks like I'm going to discover what I'm mad about today. But There is nothing, I think, the American right wants more, even with having political power. Elizabeth Bruning made this point years ago.
She writes for The Atlantic that the left has cultural power but wants political power, and the right has political power but wants cultural power. They want so badly to not just be feared but also liked, which are not the same thing. You know, there are DHS –
8chan white nationalist posting they will do that all day but they also very much want everyone to like them also they want a story of this in which they are a besieged victim but also an overwhelming army of strength but also everybody loves them And it's a complicated story to try and keep telling yourself that. But I think that that's why they keep sending these people to do hearings.
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Chapter 5: What implications do the redacted names in the Epstein files have?
Right. Like, obviously, it wasn't just Jeffrey Epstein, Glenn Maxwell and Andrew, formerly known as Prince. Like they were not the only people that were that were involved in this in the sex crimes. So there needs to be more information provided and hopefully indictments and accountability for the other people that were involved in the sex crimes.
We made a little progress on that front yesterday. Kana and Massey said that they saw the names and photos of six men likely implicated. Massey later divulged two of them, Les Wexner, Victoria's Secret, and Epstein's patron. That's a not surprising one. And then Sultan Ahmed bin Soleim of the UAE. He was apparently the one that sent Epstein the torture video.
Julie Brown, he mentioned earlier, Miami Herald reporter, has been so good on this, wrote that she knows of two survivors who say they were trafficked by Epstein to that Sultan. They don't know each other, but their stories are similar. They won't go public because they are afraid. So some baby steps towards co-conspirator accountability from Brown, Massey, Conner there.
We knew several years ago that Wexner was like, why doesn't Jeffrey Epstein deal with my entire fortune? For reasons. Just because, you know, I love just giving a guy all of my money to do something with. Who could say?
A lot of people could have your power of attorney if you're the Victoria's Secret founder, former company CEO, somebody in your progeny, someone with the last name Wexner. But choosing Jeffrey Epstein did raise some eyebrows. Like, why would I give Epstein money? Total control over my fortune. This episode of the Bulwark Podcast is brought to you by Wildgrain.
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