Transcript generated automatically by AI and may contain errors.
Chapter 1: What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
Hello and welcome to the Bullard Podcast. I'm your host, Tim Miller. We are dialing in on military news, both in American streets and abroad on today's show. But there's a lot of other stuff going on, particularly on the legal front, including the dramatic resignations in Minnesota of prosecutors who are refusing DOJ pressure to investigate the widow of Renee Nicole Good, I guess, for...
talking to ICE officers inappropriately. Just disgusting what we're seeing on the DOJ, but good on those prosecutors for resigning. Much more on that and all the other stuff in the legal news over on our new-ish podcast, Illegal News with Sarah Longwell. This is our relaunch of George Conway Explains It All, since George is running for Congress this You heard George on this show last week.
He was pretty hot. And we're going to keep the legal news going, though, or the illegal news in this case. Sarah is getting a rotating cast of sharp experts. She's got Andrew Weissman and others to break everything down. The new episode's out today with Asha Rangappa, who I got to know recently and I love.
Chapter 2: What issues are raised about ICE agents wearing masks?
So go check out the illegal news over on YouTube, Substack, or your podcast app of choice on this show. He's back. He's a retired U.S. Army lieutenant general. He was commander during the 2007-2009 troop surge in Iraq. He's also commanding general of the U.S. Army Europe. He writes on military affairs for the Bulwark. It's Mark Hertling. How are you doing, sir?
Hey, I'm doing great, Tim. Good to be with you. And if I can just reinforce what you just said about Asha Rangappa, she's awesome. I've gotten to know her really well over the last couple of years and a brilliant legal mind. She's really great. She is.
And, you know, while we're glazing people... Just having you here is just amazing. I feel so lucky to have you with us at the Bulwark. For people a little behind the scenes, it's a little weird, I would say, to have the commanding general of U.S.
Army Europe sitting through our Monday meeting where we're discussing whether to do a blog post on the Gropers or reading the Slack discussions about buccal fat removal. But you're in all of it. You're diving straight in, and we appreciate you.
I've been in staff meetings that have been much worse. So everything's going fine.
All right. We have so much to cover. I want to start with Morning Shots. Your section was called Masks, Courage and Accountability. And you wrote about your experience with the Iraqi police and masks and kind of some lessons from that and how it relates to what we're dealing with now with these masks. ICE and CBP agents roaming the streets.
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Chapter 3: How does Mark Hertling compare ICE agents to Iraqi security forces?
So I want to just kind of let you cook on that for folks who missed the newsletter.
Yeah, Tim, I tell you, you know, watching these guys, these ICE officials who we don't know how they're recruited. We don't know how they're trained. There's stories now popping up about some lapses and even vetting them. Another story about some of them being January 6th participants.
But the thing that's just been bothering the hell out of me is the fact that these guys are wearing masks with no identification whatsoever. And they're thugs. They are thugs, and I'll add to that cowards. You give me any one of those guys without a weapon and without a badge and without an association to the federal forces, and they would be a nobody.
But they're using that generated power to really— influence what's going on in the street in a negative way. They're countering what our constitution says is right in terms of the freedom of speech and the right to legal protest. It's why we formed our nation and given it some of the values and ideology we have, they are just counter to everything we are.
So, you know, after watching these for a couple of months, these guys doing these kinds of things, every time I saw them, it reminded me of the Iraqi security forces and the Iraqi police forces early on, because they would all wear masks and they would tell their commanders and the US forces, well, we're wearing it because people don't like us associating with the US military. Okay, got that.
But as they became more and more capable and more and more effective in terms of security actions, and they were doing things the right way, we noticed that both the Army and the police forces started taking those masks and kafias and the scars that they were wearing over their face, they were taking them off. It was because they were generating pride in serving their country.
These guys are not generating pride. They are being sent on the street to create havoc and to violate rights. So it just infuriated me. And that's even starting to get hot talking about it. That's why I wrote the piece.
Yeah. There's one anecdote and piece I thought was telling. You said that your kind of second or third time there, you know, as things started to change, there was a billboard campaign, right? featuring Iraqi soldiers and police smiling and proclaiming their dedication to a safe, stable environment. And it's such a telling anecdote.
They were living in an oppressive situation where there was no trust and where the, we can just be honest, where the police and federal agents were corrupt. And as part of engendering trust, they took their masks off and then had a billboard campaign about it I think that tells you all you need to know about how backwards we're going.
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Chapter 4: What does the discussion reveal about the political landscape regarding ICE?
That's not what these guys are doing. That's not what these ICE people are doing. They're intimidating and being thugs. It's... anathema to what we believe in in terms of security forces.
The one mildly encouraging thing, and we talk about a lot of bad political news around here, is people are reacting negatively to it. My friend Peter Hamby over in Puck is out with an article last night, like just kind of analyzing the polling around ICE. And after Trump's inauguration, ICE had a net favorability of plus 16.
So even some people who voted for Kamala Harris had a favorable view of ICE. Now it's underwater with a minus 14 favorability rating. It's a 30-point swing in a year. It's a dramatic political collapse in our polarized times.
And I have to assume that a lot of it is related to what you're talking about, just fundamentally Americans, even people that voted for Trump, just don't want our police or our security forces acting this way.
The thing that bothers me, though, Tim, is they don't seem to care what their favorability rating is. And this is what's troubling, because I think we are at an inflection point after last week's killing where it could go one way or another. Either they could be really subdued because they realize how bad they're being seen, or they're continuing to generate these kinds of actions, which will
eventually create some kind of pushback. And that is exactly what they want. They want the pushback so the president can declare the Insurrection Act. You know, you hear all the government officials saying, you know, don't take the bait. You know, that's become the mantra. That can only hang on for so long.
Someone's going to be furious about what's happening and there's going to be danger on the streets both ways. That's what's troubling to me.
So you mentioned the murder of Renee Nicole Good and that event. It's just a horrible tragedy in Minneapolis. And I wanted to ask you about this because I was suffering some fools over on the Piers Morgan show yesterday. We were kind of arguing about this situation. I saw that. To me, that just seems so obvious.
I watched that video, and I'm just like, I just don't see how somebody could incredibly be scared for their life after that sequence of events. But I do think I have some limited credibility on this, having never been in law enforcement or in the military. And I just kind of was curious your perspective on that, watching all that.
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Chapter 5: What are the implications of airstrikes on Iran as discussed in the episode?
It's different when you're in combat and you're facing a threat. I mean... I'll say this publicly, Tim, and it's in my new book coming out. I've killed people at close range. And you don't like to do that. But when you have to, you do. So it's a reflection of someone who likes bloodlust, who wants to do something like this.
It doesn't matter that he was involved in another occasion that he feared for his life a couple of months before. Each incident is different. And the other thing I don't understand is why did they release the film? Why did DHS release the film of his camera showing the woman saying, yeah, I'm not mad?
You don't kill somebody for that unless you have a unique insecurity and an inferiority complex and you like to use power. And those aren't the kind of people that you should have on a police force.
Just thinking about that, like you're saying, like people that are guarding the gates. So many times we've had to train people who are doing legitimate security work. You know, you don't even speak in the language, right? You know, you're going into a foreign country and it's hard to know. You know what I mean? It's like this person a threat or are they just unhappy that we're here?
And you just have to use judgment in those situations and try to de-escalate. And it's just like comparing... Like all of the danger situations where people have chosen not to escalate. It's like this with a 37-year-old woman with stuffed animals in her passenger seat, like clearly turning her car away. It's just crazy.
And she was a protester. Okay, that's great. But even if you see before the shooting what occurred, within a span of about five seconds, there was a get out of the car, get out of the fucking car. Well, that immediately puts someone on the defensive. And you don't want to stick around to see what's going to happen next. And that was their first approach.
That's the first thing they did to her before the shooting. So you have to take the entire incident in context. And I just can't believe the people that are defending this shooting because it's not what security forces do.
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Chapter 6: How does the episode address the situation in Venezuela?
We're going to go a little around the globe with you. And I want to start with Iran. You have an article out for us today on this, how Iran is more than just a target set. I guess I just want to start with what we're seeing on the ground, what kind of protests and uprising this is and how this might be different than some of the other ones in the past. You write about this.
And kind of how we should be thinking about this, given that there is just a really horrifying, brutal crackdown right now happening on these protesters. We don't know a real number at this point, but five figures, I think it's pretty safe to say, have been killed by the Iranian regime.
And this is different than past uprisings in Iran. I mean, the uprisings against the government are episodic. They occur all the time. This one's huge. It's large. But it's not about the policies or the religion. It's about economics. The people of Iran are in really horrible shape. And they have been for a while. And it's coming to a head.
And they certainly are being suppressed by the Iranian Republican Guard, the Bajis, the But, you know, I was on a show last night talking to a guy who is a expert on the IRGC. And he basically said, you guys are talking in theoreticals. You know, you've got to go in and kill them all. Well, the IRGC consists of estimates about 200,000 people. The Bajis consist of another 600,000.
So there are those who say we've got to destroy these security forces so the regime can collapse and the uprising can occur. But that's a pretty major mission for any military force. It certainly isn't going to be conducted by bombings, which seems to be the first resort of recent presidents across the board. You know, if we can get airstrikes in, people think we're doing something. But...
When you're talking about the IRGC spread across parts of Iran, what they're capable of doing, and the supporting militias they have behind them, it's a pretty big force.
And even if you're lucky enough to kill all of them, which you certainly wouldn't be able to do when you're talking about a million people, which is more than the US Army, by the way, you've got some concerns about what's going to happen next. Are the hardliners in government going to blame the great Satan for doing what they're doing and killing all these people.
Certainly, the people who are protesting want to see their enforcers, the ones that are subjecting them to the death and the suffering, killed or done away with. But surgical airstrikes are not going to do that. And even beyond that, Tim, you've got to take a look at who are the forces in the area.
The carrier strike group forward has been taken out of the Arabian Gulf and the Mediterranean to go to Venezuela.
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Chapter 7: What is the current state of the conflict in Ukraine?
Because we sent it to— But breaking news, as you just mentioned before we went on, if we're talking about Qatar, you know, that's where our major air base is in the Middle East. And if we're bringing forces out of there, according to the presidential order.
Yeah, this is a Reuters report. Yeah, that we're removing some personnel from these bases right now because of tensions.
Yeah, that's going to knock the forces down even more. And you have another report from Denmark that the president has asked them to assist in a campaign against Iran. This is the same Denmark he's threatening to invade as part of their Greenland holdings. So Denmark is basically saying, Pound Sand, we're not doing anything with you. This is what happens when you diss your allies.
You pull forces out willy-nilly for other contingencies that doesn't have a major strategy. And you're basically insulting your alliances and even playing them as almost enemies because they don't either pony up cash or pony up forces or do what you want them to do by giving away their land. The last attack with Israel that went against Iran had Danish aircraft with it.
I believe it had German aircraft with it and it had French aircraft with it. So these are the three allies that we're now insulting who don't want to play with us in any kind of action, especially one that might instigate a major campaign and create havoc on the European and Middle Eastern continents.
Just sticking with Iran and what the options are for a second, you're talking about the limitations of airstrikes and the risk of destabilizing Iran, something that you got to think about as you're looking through the various options. I do get a little bit frustrated sometimes with like, because we've had you know, some of these failed efforts, I think it's important to learn from them.
But it doesn't mean that, like, we're helpless. I do think sometimes the opponents of getting involved have this, you know, sort of view that we should do nothing and that we have this helplessness. And there's a risk of status quo of keeping her on.
And obviously they're cracking down on their own people, but they are funding, you know, terror groups and they're funding, you know, other organizations to try to destabilize us and our allies. So what are things that we might be able to do that could be productive, you know, maybe short of just bombing a couple of things and saying that we helped.
That's what I laid out in the article about the elements of national power. And the major element is diplomacy. And then you have information and then you have economic power and then you have military power. But the first response is usually let's use the military because it's the most forceful and you can publicize it.
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Chapter 8: How does the episode discuss the potential for nuclear weapons in Sweden?
So all of those things and a consistent approach to the use of military power with a smart approach, in my view, is the right way to do it. You combine all elements of national power, the four elements of diplomacy, information, economics, and military in a major campaign. And I don't think that's being done. I don't see indicators of that.
And in fact, I see in some cases just the opposite, that we're ignoring some elements of national power.
I do just want to mention Irfan Soltani is this 26-year-old shopkeeper in Karaj who is protesting. He's scheduled to be executed on Wednesday. Trump was asked about this by Tony DiCoppo last night and basically said that if they do that execution, it's going to lead to consequences. My sympathies are always towards Are there productive things that we can do to help the Iranian people?
Because what they're dealing with is just unimaginably horrible. And it's been that way for decades. The problem on that is, okay, is it imaginable that what we're going to do is productive? And I want to offer the senator from Oklahoma, Mark Wayne Mullen, was on CNN last night with Caitlin Collins. And it's not exactly encouraging. Here are a few clips from his convo with her.
This is your favorite taking out the Iranian regime. I am at this point. They're murdering their citizens. We're not into regime change. This isn't the Arab Spring like happened underneath Secretary Clinton. But this is the people of Iran standing up to a murderous regime. And if that leadership is going to kill their own people, the president said, we'll come to your rescue.
But you just said you are for regime change here. No, I said I'm for the strikes. You said before that you're for taking out the regime. Yeah, absolutely, because they're the ones murdering their own people. That's different than regime change. The regime change is up to the Iranian people. We're not going actively to remove the regime.
We're going after the people that are killing their own people, and that happens to be the regime. But just to be clear, you support taking out the Supreme Leader. If he's the one that's calling these airstrikes in or the killings of his own people, then absolutely. Okay, but that would be regime change.
Well, how do you decipher that one?
That's what's known as a circular argument. You know, you can't make sense. And it's a guy that has very little experience in terms of what military force does and what happens as an after effect of taking out leaders of a country. So that should be part of the planning. It's the same thing that's occurring in Venezuela. The plan should include what happens if the regime topples.
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