S2 Ep1019: David Frum: It's Too Late to Stop the Pain
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What are the implications of Trump's trade embargo on China?
We're going to talk about a bunch of different things because you're the best guest on this podcast all the time. Tim is the regular host, has to pretend that he doesn't have favorite guests, but I don't have to make any such things. You are the best guest. Last night, we got a Supreme Court ruling unanimously on Kilmar Abrego-Garcia, the Maryland father of a special needs child who was wrongly deported down to the mega prison in El Salvador. The court ruled that the administration must facilitate his return, but it did not order it.
How does the Supreme Court ruling affect deportation cases?
And it also indicated that courts may not have the power to do so because of, quote, deference owed to the executive branch in the conduct of foreign affairs. David, this reads to me like a less good decision than some people seem to hope because it presumes a world of regular order. Tell me, what are your thoughts on this?
Well, I think oftentimes in these decisions, you have a choice of the full espresso, 5-4, the espresso macchiato, 6-3, or the cafe americano at 9-0. And so pretty obviously, Roberts thought it was more important to have a 9-0 outcome than to have a really robust decision. I think I'm not going to gainsay John Roberts on those kinds of Supreme Court tactics. It's pretty obvious. It got the headline, bring this guy home. He's not... in Siberia. He's not in China. Your claim that you have no ability to return somebody from America's only ally in the world right now, El Salvador, which is being paid. We hear $6 million a year, but we don't really know. And we don't know if there's a fee for the president on top of the stated $6 million.
But you can't get them out of the El Salvadorian prison you helped to create. We don't believe you. So that's all worth doing. They've also given the Trump administration a pathway to return somebody because they The Trump administration is so obsessed with not losing face. They can never admit they made a mistake, but now there's a nine to zero court order. They're going to have to comply. And that opens the way to returning other people who are wrongly held and who never got a hearing.
Do you think that Trump wants to comply with this? Because it seems to me that it's pretty easy for him to not comply if he doesn't want to. He can do one of two things. He could say no, because this is actually foreign affairs and has to do with the national security of the United States with the purview of the chief executive. Or he could say, I tried, I spoke to them, and I can't tell you about those discussions because of executive privilege. but it is simply not possible.
Look, we can power a small city with the energy generated by JVL worry. Yes. But I think in this case, the worry is right, but I think it's pointed in the wrong direction. My concern, and I'm not saying I'm right, but I think they will return the first. A nine to zero Supreme Court decision, you start defying those, and now we're on the path to out... lawlessness. And I think Trump is saving that for the 2026 elections. I don't think he wants to go early. I don't think he wants to have the people in the streets now, especially with the economy in such a shambles. I think the plan is if he's thinking about defying the rules, he's going to do that in the 2026 election season. What I worry about in this case,
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Chapters
5 chapters
1
What are the implications of Trump's trade embargo on China?
1:19–1:56
2
How does the Supreme Court ruling affect deportation cases?
1:56–4:51
3
Why might Trump want to fire the Federal Reserve Chair?
4:51–14:59
4
What is the significance of tariffs on the global supply chain?
14:59–28:25
5
How has protectionism affected US politics historically?
28:25–52:29