Ta-Nehisi Coates: This Is Armed Identity Politics
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What is the main topic of Ta-Nehisi Coates' new column?
Hello and welcome to the Bulwark Podcast. I'm your host, Tim Miller. Delighted to welcome back to the show a journalist and author and contributing editor at Vanity Fair, which just published his newest column, The Homeland is a War on America, the Blood and Soil Nationalism that killed Rene Good and Alex Preddy. It's time to ask you, Coates. How you doing, man?
I'm doing good. I'm doing good. How about you, Tim?
Well, you know, we're here. All right.
How does the concept of 'homeland' shape political discourse?
We're living. So that's the best we can do. It was a great piece, man. I'm so appreciative of you coming back on. And the word homeland's been bugging me a lot. So you scratched an itch that I've had. And I guess let's just start.
Wait, I'm so sorry. Can I ask you why it's been bugging you? Sure.
What historical context influences current identity politics?
Well, here's why. It was funny. I was reading the article. And you quoted Peggy Noonan. I did. Who I kind of hate now, but who I loved in 2002. And this was an article of hers from 2002 where she said, Homeland isn't really an American word. It's not something we used to say or say now. It has a vaguely Teutonic ring. V must help the Fuhrer protect the homeland.
How does white supremacy manifest within government structures?
And that's like how I felt about it. That's how I felt about it. And I didn't feel that way. about the Department of Homeland Security during the 20 aughts. I should have in retrospect, but I didn't. But like the way they use it has drawn out that kind of German Teutonic sense for me in a way that's made me feel very uncomfortable. It's the blood and soil element of it. So that'd be my answer. What about you?
No, I only asked you because I can't say I was either.
What overlooked elements of the Civil Rights Movement are discussed?
I mean, I was in my 20s when they, you know, founded the Department of Homeland Security. But I certainly was not saying, wow, this sounds really, this sounds a little off, you know. And I probably did not have enough political awareness to understand that some of the problems that, you know, we're seeing today actually had their roots back then. But what was interesting to me is that some people did. And some of them were people that you would suspect and some of them were people that, you know, you would not necessarily suspect either.
Yeah, I thought that was the interesting thing about the Peggy column that you referenced it is to me, it speaks to something that I think basically everyone would have agreed about in 2002 that the Trump supporters would disagree with now because they have to out of convenience, which is that like words matter, framing their carry with them some type of. you know, whether you want to or not. They carry with them implications, you know, whether you want them to or not necessarily. And it feels like the fact that they gave it that name, the Department of Homeland Security, had these implications. You could kind of see some of it in the Bush and Obama years.
How does Jared Kushner's vision for Gaza reflect broader issues?
I don't want to say you couldn't. The sort of rhetorical implications of it really fully bloomed in this past few years.
Yeah.
Yeah, definitely. And there are people like Russ Feingold, who I interviewed for the article, and Spencer Ackerman, who wrote this great, great history of the war on terror called Reign of Terror, which very much influenced this article, by the way, who would say that even then, the pivot to merging border security with anti-terrorism, actually that there's a lot of, you know, roots of what's happening now in that, that it's not a mistake that you ended up in a Black, Muslim, immigrant, sometimes not immigrant, community, that that became the flashpoint.
Yeah. Yeah. The other thing that Russ, that you referenced in the story that I think was super prescient, you look at now was that a lot of those who were responding to his concerns were saying, well, like we have, we're better than that. Like, you know, you're worried that this might happen, but the norms will protect us.
What critiques are made about the state of journalism today?
And he was saying at the time, well, we can't just rely on like norms protecting us. And like here we are today and literally DHS is signing warrants for themselves to beat down the door of people's houses. And the vice president is out there saying, well, we got a warrant because they're just checking their own boxes.
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Chapters
8 chapters
1
What is the main topic of Ta-Nehisi Coates' new column?
0:12–0:32
2
How does the concept of 'homeland' shape political discourse?
0:32–0:50
3
What historical context influences current identity politics?
0:50–1:13
4
How does white supremacy manifest within government structures?
1:13–1:40
5
What overlooked elements of the Civil Rights Movement are discussed?
1:40–2:46
6
How does Jared Kushner's vision for Gaza reflect broader issues?
2:46–3:44
7
What critiques are made about the state of journalism today?
3:44–4:37
8
What lessons can be learned from past activism and its impact?
4:37–52:21
Speakers
3 identifiedMore from The Bulwark Daily
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