Pete Hegseth convenes the military’s top leaders to complain about fat troops and generals and plug his book. Meanwhile, Charlie Kirk’s assassination continues to drive debate about how to confront MAGA as a cultural and political movement. David Jolly, a Democratic gubernatorial candidate in Florida, joins Tim to talk about his campaign, why he switched parties and how he thinks he can reverse his state’s political trajectory. Then, The Ringer’s Van Lathan talks with Tim about our recent interview with Ezra Klein and what political conversations about beating MAGA are missing. Show Notes: Bulwark Live in DC (10/8) and NYC (10/11) with Sarah, Tim and JVL are on sale now at TheBulwark.com/events. For a limited time only, get 60% off your first order, plus free shipping, when you head to Smalls.com/THEBULWARK.

Ask this episode

“What did the council decide on item 42?” — answered with the speaker and the moment.