The Chuck ToddCast
Interview Only w/ Mechele Dickerson - Does America Need A Middle Class New Deal?
19 Jan 2026
Chapter 1: What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
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Chapter 2: What insights does Mechele Dickerson offer about the New Deal's impact on the middle class?
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Chapter 3: How do free markets relate to the creation of a stable middle class?
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Chapter 4: What challenges do independent contractors face compared to traditional employees?
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Chapter 5: How could government-guaranteed healthcare benefit businesses?
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Chapter 6: What reforms are needed to improve public education?
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Well, as we get to the run-up of not just Campaign 2026, but Campaign 2028, one of the things I'm going to actively be seeking out are academics and authors and historians that are trying to lay out visions that look forward, not necessarily relitigating the past.
And whether it's in how are we going to reform and change and modernize the public education system, which I think is something that I hope our next presidential campaign can begin to discuss.
Chapter 7: How can labor unions be revitalized in today's economy?
And in that vein, there's a terrific new book out by. a professor at the University of Texas Law School by Michelle Dickerson. She's my guest today. The book is called The Middle Class New Deal, Restoring Upward Mobility and the American Dream. This is more than just a white paper of aspiration. This is a book with a detailed blueprint of for how we should tackle this.
And what's interesting about this, and I'm gonna shut up here a minute and bring in Michelle, is that I view it as this better be a book that anybody running for president, I don't care which party you're running from, ought to read because whether you're a liberal or conservative, the goals that are outlined here in this book, I think are something that frankly, both,
Chapter 8: What actions can be taken to restore the middle class in America?
the left and the right aspire to. We're just disagreeing on how we get there. But it does begin here with I think the reminder that in order to have a middle class, you actually have to have government policy that wants to have a middle class. And I think that was, before we begin our conversation, the most important insight, I think, that I took away from this book.
So without further ado, let me bring in Michelle Dickerson, University of Texas Law School. Been there, multiple books. She's written multiple books. This is, again... Not a I don't this doesn't strike me. It didn't strike me as a political book. It struck me as a answer to the economic anxiety that is essentially been reflected in what has been now 20 years of what I call vote against politics.
We know what we don't want. Nobody's yet come up with the answer for what we do want. So, Michelle Dickerson, welcome to the podcast.
Thanks for having me. I'm glad to be here.
So let me start with this because I think, you know, you hear the words New Deal and we've seen a lot of economic prescriptions using the umbrella of the New Deal. Right. And, you know, a lot of times it's just borrowing a popular phrase to sell something that people have been trying to sell for years. This didn't strike me.
Tell me your origin as to what motivated you to put these ideas together the way you did.
The first thing I did is I thought about how is it that we have a middle class? And this is a point that you just made in the introduction. We have a middle class because political leaders decided we needed to have a middle class. Now, part of it was in response to the Depression. But after the Depression and World War I, World War II, Political leaders said, you know what?
It's not a bad thing to have a middle class. They do good things for the U.S. economy. And also as political leaders, we need to do good things for lower and middle income folks who are looking to achieve the American dream, to have upward mobility. So I landed on the middle class New Deal.
because we created the middle class roughly as part of the first New Deal and political leaders need to stop. And I agree with the way that you framed this. This is not a left or a right or a Democrat or a Republican book. This is a book for all political leaders to make a decision. Do we care about the middle class in this country or not?
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