Nathan interviews Mike Knoop, co-founder of Zapier and co-creator of the ARC Prize, about the $1 million competition for more efficient AI architectures. They discuss the ARC AGI benchmark, its implications for general intelligence, and the potential impact on AI safety. Nathan reflects on the challenges of intuitive problem-solving in AI and considers hybrid approaches to AGI development. Apply to join over 400 founders and execs in the Turpentine Network: https://hmplogxqz0y.typeform.com/to/JCkphVqj RECOMMENDED PODCAST 🎙️ Second Opinion - A new podcast for health-tech insiders from Christina Farr of the Second Opinion newsletter. Join Christina Farr, Luba Greenwood, and Ash Zenooz every week as they challenge industry experts with tough questions about the best bets in health-tech. Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/id1759267211 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0A8NwQE976s32zdBbZw6bv - 🎙️ History 102 with WhatifAltHist Every week, creator of WhatifAltHist Rudyard Lynch and Erik Torenberg cover a major topic in history in depth -- in under an hour. This season will cover classical Greece, early America, the Vikings, medieval Islam, ancient China, the fall of the Roman Empire, and more. Subscribe on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/36Kqo3BMMUBGTDo1IEYihm Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/history-102-with-whatifalthists-rudyard-lynch-and/id1730633913 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@History102-qg5oj SPONSORS: Oracle Cloud Infrastructure (OCI) is a single platform for your infrastructure, database, application development, and AI needs. OCI has four to eight times the bandwidth of other clouds; offers one consistent price, and nobody does data better than Oracle. If you want to do more and spend less, take a free test drive of OCI at https://oracle.com/cognitive The Brave search API can be used to assemble a data set to train your AI models and help with retrieval augmentation at the time of inference. All while remaining affordable with developer first pricing, integrating the Brave search API into your workflow translates to more ethical data sourcing and more human representative data sets. Try the Brave search API for free for up to 2000 queries per month at https://bit.ly/BraveTCR Omneky is an omnichannel creative generation platform that lets you launch hundreds of thousands of ad iterations that actually work customized across all platforms, with a click of a button. Omneky combines generative AI and real-time advertising data. Mention "Cog Rev" for 10% off https://www.omneky.com/ Head to Squad to access global engineering without the headache and at a fraction of the cost: head to https://choosesquad.com/ and mention “Turpentine” to skip the waitlist. CHAPTERS: (00:00:00) About the Show (00:06:06) The ARC Benchmark (00:09:34) Other Benchmarks (00:10:58) Definition of AGI (00:14:38) The rules of the contest (00:18:16) ARC test set (Part 1) (00:18:23) Sponsors: Oracle | Brave (00:20:31) ARC test set (Part 2) (00:22:50) Stair-stepping benchmarks (00:26:17) ARC Prize (00:28:34) The rules of the ARC Prize (00:31:12) Compute costs (Part 1) (00:34:47) Sponsors: Omneky | Squad (00:36:34) Compute costs (Part 2) (00:51:20) Intuition (00:54:32) Human Intelligence (00:56:06) Current Frontier Language Models (00:57:44) Program Synthesis (01:04:10) Is the model learning or memorizing? (01:15:02) Exploring Solutions (01:17:02) Non-backpropagation evolutionary architecture search (01:19:49) Expectations for an AGI world (01:24:11) Reliability and out of domain generalization (01:28:35) What a person would do (01:29:51) What is the right generalization (01:35:32) The ARC AGI Challenge (01:48:32) FunSearch (01:50:41) Kolmogorov-Arnold-Networks (01:54:18) Grokking (01:55:42) Outro

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“What did the council decide on item 42?” — answered with the speaker and the moment.