Joanna Coles sits down with leadership expert Jeffrey Sonnenfeld and co-author Steven Tian as their book, Trump’s Ten Commandments, dissects Donald Trump not as a politician, but as a pattern—revealing the repeatable tactics behind his rise, survival, and power plays. From a jaw-dropping personal story that begins with a brutal critique of The Apprentice and ends with Trump offering Sonnenfeld the presidency of Trump University, to a breakdown of how he flips enemies into loyalists, weaponizes lawsuits, and thrives on chaos, this conversation pulls back the curtain on the mechanics of influence. The authors map out Trump’s central tenets of leadership—from divide-and-conquer tactics to relentless distraction campaigns—arguing that his real power lies in instinct, not ideology. As tensions escalate globally and questions swirl around strategy, alliances, and control, the episode delivers a blunt, insider blueprint for understanding—and countering—the most unconventional leadership style in modern politics. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Ask this episode

“What did the council decide on item 42?” — answered with the speaker and the moment.