Chapter 1: What is the significance of 'Wicked: For Good' in relation to its predecessor?
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Welcome to the Sunday special. I'm Gilbert Cruz. Wicked is back. Wicked for Good has just been released. This is film number two. The first movie, simply titled Wicked, came out almost exactly one year ago today. And Wicked for Good is going to be one of the biggest films of the year.
Joining me to talk about it is Kyle Buchanan, who covers Hollywood for The Times and who recently profiled Ariana Grande, one of the stars of the film. Hello, Kyle. Hello, Gilbert. And Madison Malone Kircher, who covers Internet culture for The Times, but more importantly, for the purposes of this conversation, is an Ozian. She is a wicked enthusiast.
Yeah, we'll go with that.
Hello, Madison.
I'm thrillified to be here.
We're going to try not to spoil too much of this movie, but we are going to talk about some specific scenes. So if you're the type of person for which that is important, keep that in mind. All right. To get started, I think listeners should have a sense from all of us of where we stand, Wicked-wise, in relation to Wicked. How Wicked-ified are we? How Wicked-pilled are we?
I've never seen the Broadway show, but I've seen the first movie several times. I enjoyed it. Saw the second movie. Listened to the music. Kyle, we're going to start with you. What's your relationship to Wicked?
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Chapter 2: How do the hosts' personal experiences with 'Wicked' influence their perspectives?
We love you. Takes you through their school years, where they go to Shiz University.
Don't say it like a question.
A name they should have changed for the movie.
Alphabet. You can room with Miss Glinda.
They form this unlikely friendship, and the movie ends with arguably the musical's biggest hit, which is Defying Gravity.
There is no fight we cannot win. Just you and I divide.
Um, Kyle, you've spoken to members of the cast and the crew over the past couple years. Did these two films always feel like they were going to be a success?
I think people hoped that they would be, but there was enough precedent to suggest that they wouldn't. I mean, when you look at the really big musical theater phenomenons that have... come out on film, something like, you know, Les Miserables or Phantom of the Opera, they couldn't quite translate that gigantic, overwhelming enthusiasm to, you know, big, boffo box office scores.
And then you had, you know, outright bombs like Dear Evan Hansen or Cats that maybe did a little bit of damage to the actual, you know, brand on stage. So it was not a done deal at all that Wicked would be a success. And in fact, I think that's why it took so long to get off the ground.
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Chapter 3: What challenges did the filmmakers face in adapting the second act of 'Wicked'?
Isn't it high time for her bubble?
There simply isn't enough plot to sustain it. And also by nature of the politics of the world we're living in right now, so many of the undertones just feel, I've already used heavy handed, ham fisted. They just, it's, there's no magic. There's only drudgery.
Yeah, I agree with you that some of it does feel heavy-handed, the sort of the present-day resonances. But the original book, and by virtue of that, the original musical, that stuff is baked into there as well. When Gregory Maguire wrote this in 1995, when the musical came out around the time of the Iraq War, you know, it was sort of a...
a different idea of who's in power and what are the messages that they're giving us and who are the people that are spreading what some consider to be propaganda.
And that comes down to the difference between a 45-minute second act and a two-hour and 18-minute second act. Because at a certain point, you're just saying the same thing over and over again.
So many banners in this movie.
So many banners.
Like, what's the banner budget? Every scene is like, here's new banners from the sky. They're all saying the Wicked Witch's pass. At a certain point,
We got it. I want to push back on something, though. Which is, you know, you're criticizing the heavy-handedness of the fascist message and the metaphors. But I don't think they worked on our dear friend Gilbert Cruz. Because Gilbert is very anti-animal after having watched the Wicked movies. Gilbert does not want those animals to have rights. This is totally unnecessary to put here.
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Chapter 4: What factors contributed to the success of the first 'Wicked' film?
What'd you write down?
I wrote down what is Oz's political system? Yeah. The entire first half of the movie. I was like, so is the wizard a dictator? Where is the government? I understand there's this council of governors and Nessa Rose is a Munchkin governor.
But canonically, Munchkin City also has a mayor. Like, that's the source text. So I agree. Do you see my confusion? Yeah, no, I agree.
Okay.
She's green. Just go with it.
You're right. You're right. I'm thinking too much about it. All that being said, there's some pretty great highs of this. I found For Good quite emotionally moving. There's a scene towards the end where they're in the tower and Elphaba puts Linda behind a door and says, you have to hide here. She puts her in a closet. Dorothy is coming. Take the book. Hide here. There's a split screen.
And the two of them are on opposite sides of the door for quite a long time. And I was just like, these two love each other so much. When are they going to kiss? And they never did.
Well, that's something that they arrived in in rehearsals, according to John Chu. Really? When they were just simply rehearsing it before I think they'd even gotten to London where they shot this film. Ariana and Cynthia were singing that song and then essentially mimed a door. So their relationship, their bond, is what informed the staging of that movie ultimately.
Madison, what are the scenes that stuck with you, good or bad?
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Chapter 5: How does 'Wicked: For Good' reflect current cultural and political themes?
Next one.
Anyone.
Is that Ben Platt? That has not been flat medicine. Kyle. No clue. That is Paul Mescal. What?
Do you remember Glicked?
Oh, my God.
Yeah. As a phenomenon.
Who made him do that? That was from Saturday Night Live. Okay. We have a couple more here. Next.
I didn't think I was going to win because.
Kyle. Well, that is Kiki Palmer. That is definitely Kiki Palmer. Very good. Final one.
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