Chapter 1: What insights do Stan Van Gundy and Pat Riley share about their coaching journeys?
Kings Network. Welcome to South Beach Sessions, the smile on my face. You haven't seen it that much, but we've got an old friend in the house. He's old and a friend, and he's also an old friend, and I want to make him comfortable because these things can get intimate and vulnerable, so I have a gift here. I've been thinking for weeks, how am I going to do this? I haven't seen him in a while.
I haven't talked to him in person in a while, so... Here you go. I thought for a long time about how to do this correctly. You really thought hard about this.
Are you still opening the mornings with one of those? I do. Every morning, yeah. I've tried not to take them too far into the afternoon, but since I'll be up late tonight, I can have one.
Okay. And you have not yet quenched that habit. You haven't killed that habit, even though you should be drinking water. You're taking care of yourself. You look a lot healthier, as you always do, the moment that you get off of the sidelines.
Yeah. I have had people say that there is a lot less stress. But to be honest, with the weight loss, it was all it was all medication. And it was all the having gotten so bad with my blood sugar that I was a type two diabetic. I got put on Munjaro and that's all I've done. I haven't changed my diet a whole lot. I, you know, or anything else. So it's not really that I've done anything.
I have talked to you a great deal over the years about something that perpetually confounds me, which is you always returning to basketball when it seems to make you a good deal more miserable. when you are a balanced person who loves his family, and yet there's something about the misery and the coaching that is forever calling you.
Have you sort of reconciled now that you're approaching government retirement age? even though you're going to keep working for a while, I imagine. Have you reconciled the fact that you've devoted your life to a thing that consumes you and is a forever pursuit, but also had a lot of stuff in it that you didn't like so much?
Yeah, I actually really regret that I didn't.
allow myself or didn't do what I needed to do to enjoy it more I mean you know because there's a lot about it that's good and that's what draws me back all the time the camaraderie of a team and you know I was just saying to Mike Ryan out here you guys know what that feels like the camaraderie of a team working toward a goal I mean there's nothing there's nothing better than that and the challenge of competition it's addictive and
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Chapter 2: How do Stan and Jeff Van Gundy navigate their sibling rivalry in coaching?
In the moment, I regretted whatever mistakes I had made in the previous game. and worried about what was coming up in the next game and what I needed to do. It was never about that moment. Other than, you know, my brother has said, which is a great line, and it's really true, there's the best five minutes in life are after a great road win.
You know, and he laughs and says, his daughter said, you know, what about when we were born? And he said, I said what I said. Now, I don't agree with that to that extent, but yeah, there are those brief moments after a great win where you feel good, but I didn't do it for long enough.
Not that you're going to take a week while other games are coming, but take the night at least and have a beer with your wife or something and enjoy it and get back to work the next morning. No, I mean, I was already on... The mistakes of that game, even if we won. And what are we doing tomorrow to get ready for the next team? And that's just, I think most coaches are like that.
I don't think I'm different than most guys.
What do you view as sort of your happiest year and your unhappiest year in coaching? I would imagine getting to the finals with Orlando.
Yeah. You know what, though? As I look back, I actually know my happiest year in coaching was 1983-84, coaching Castleton State College. In 1984, 85, two years there where coaching at Castleton was unbelievable. Good players, good teams, fabulous people who literally two weeks ago, eight of them came down. Guys played for me 40 years ago and eight of them came down because...
You know, they knew I'd been through some things. And so they were going to spend an entire weekend with me the weekend of the men's and women's final fours and stayed with me. That group was really close in the NBA. Honestly, the most enjoyable year as a head coach was my first year, my year here. Oh, three or four. We got off to an 0 and 7 start. We were five and 15.
You know, and then to come all the way back and win 17 of our last 21 and make it to the second round of the playoffs. And that was a group where a lot of guys were either getting their first opportunity. Obviously, it was Dwayne Wade's rookie year. Rafer Alston was really getting his first opportunity.
Damon Jones, you know, we had had the year before and had that great, you know, or we had, yeah, that year. And so guys were getting their first big opportunity there. To play. And it was just fun. I mean, it was, you know, nobody had any real expectations on us. It was also Udonis' rookie year, Lamar Odom's first year and only year in Miami. I mean, it was just my most fun year in the NBA.
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Chapter 3: What is the significance of 'Heat Culture' in Pat Riley's coaching philosophy?
You know, their families and they've got young families and all of that. They're going to be out the door too. And that's not fans responsibility. I just think when fans get so vicious about it, they don't have that perspective. And it really pisses me off with the media sometimes who are doing the coach on the hot seat bit and the whole thing. And, and,
I know I've said this to you, too, but, you know, back when there were so many media layoffs and I'm not even talking as much people behind the mics, but back when the written part of like ESPN, you know, laid off a lot of writers and stuff. And, you know, they expect us to all feel sorry for them.
And I'm like, wait a minute, you're the guys who were who want to spend half your career writing about how coaches should use or lose their jobs. Well, here you are. Well, here you are. So a little more sensitivity to, you know, the guy in the video room. Maybe I deserve to lose my job in Detroit. The guy in the video room didn't. He busted his ass. He was in there.
He was in there every damn day for 14 hours doing a great job. And he's being punished for my decisions. Like, let's tone down the... you know, excitement over people losing their jobs.
You mentioned Spolstra. Could you see it early with him? Was it that obvious?
It was. And I will, you know, I know that's hard for people to believe, but I remember having been here only a couple of months. And I remember saying to my wife at home and to my brother and father, who obviously are basketball people like This guy's great, you know, and I've only done that, you know, he was early in his career, obviously right at the beginning.
And I did that one other time and it was with Sean Miller when I was at Wisconsin and I was only months on the job and I was like, whoa, this is a different level. And I think what amazed me is when I came here. I'd already been in college coaching for 14 years, so I was new to the NBA, but I wasn't new to coaching.
And to see somebody in their first job who had his intelligence, his knowledge of the game, his approach and players. immediately trusted him. Like he would go work with them and he just had this air about him. The thing with Eric, and I think players still catch on to it with him. It's always about them and about making the team better. It's never about him.
And so I think they are attracted to that right away. And then his competence, his, You know, he can go out there and teach you and help you get better. Yeah, I saw all of that right away. And then just his demeanor. I mean, he's not like me. He's not with the ups and downs. He may be internally, but externally, he's very even keel. And so, yeah.
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Chapter 4: How does Stan Van Gundy address the pressures of coaching in the NBA?
Jeff's very, you know, composed. And so, um, But I would say we're pretty much the same. I really think if somebody would give him another chance, I honestly do think that he would be different with all of that. I do. I think that he's a more intentional learner maybe in that regard. And I think he would be different.
That's a cop-out. You're a media member now. You've got to take a stand. You can't have nuance.
It can't be a tie. But I don't really know. I really don't know.
Well, does he articulate the same sort of remorse about, I wish I had enjoyed it more?
Yes. Oh, absolutely. We talk about that all the time. From our background to get to where we were... And to not have an appreciation for that, we do appreciate like we we will talk among ourselves. And I certainly have this feeling all the time of even now, even just sitting courtside broadcast in a game is like crazy. how in the hell did I get here?
Like, you know, I was a nondescript small college player. I'm coaching at small college. The hell? I'm coaching in the NBA? The moment where I really remember it, my first year as a head coach here, our seventh game of the year, and the reason I remember it was the seventh game is he took us to 0-7 at the start of my career. We were in Houston, and
And what I remember the moment of lining up for the national anthem and looking down and seeing him on the other end and thinking like, you gotta be kidding me. And, and I, even at that point, even with the game coming up, I had to fight back the tears at that point of just thinking like, this is amazing.
I mean, I'd already had the tears when he first got named the head coach, his first home game, they beat the, I think it was his first home game. I know it was his first home win. They beat Jordan's bulls and the crowd in Madison square garden was,
chanting his name and i was watching on tv and i got the tears then but to be in the same game with him now i did think though he knew i was struggling i'm starting my career at oh and six he could have given us one he could have given us one if he really if he really gave a crap sit a couple guys out get me my first win and then go on about i mean he could have done that he didn't so there are limits to his love for me and i learned that at that moment
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Chapter 5: What lessons does Pat Riley share about overcoming adversity in coaching?
You brought all of that that you learned in Los Angeles and New York, you brought it to Miami and you're still here fighting at 79 when it would be very easy to just go to Malibu and rest. You've earned rest.
No, no. I mean, Jack McMahon, you know, Bill Sharman, Pete Newell, Jerry West, Dave Chakets, you know, all the executives that I worked with, I learned a lot from them, especially Jerry. and working for him as a coach all those years in L.A.
And so when I came to Miami and Mickey said that he was going to hire, and he hired the president and head coach of the Miami Heat, I immediately turned all the executive stuff over to, at that time, it was Dave Wohl and it was Chris Wallace, and then Randy Fun came in and Andy Ellsberg, and I coached. I was never in the executive office as a basketball operation. I was done with the coaches.
And at that time, it was Stan Van Gundy, Scotty Robertson, and Bob McAdoo, and me, and Ron Culp, and Jay Sable, and 12 players. That's all we had. I kept that tight. That group was tight. And and I kept, you know, sort of an insulated fabric around that group. And it was important to me. So the executive part of it in building the franchise, I don't care who you are as an executive.
I had the power. I never used it. I didn't want to use it. But I had the power. Basically, the players thought I had the power and I could coach. And that's the only thing that I could bring to this team is winning. I mean, I have to take it from the practice court to the old arena, which I love playing that old arena.
And as long as we were winning, the executive things would take care of themselves. Now, while I was doing that too on the side, I was getting tremendous support from the people that I delegated that stuff to at the time. Because I couldn't do both. I was not an executive, I was a coach. And I've learned how to become an executive better. And I've kept people together here.
We have kept people together here for a long time. There's a great commercial running right now. And it has sort of a religious connotation to it that in talking about teams can win, but families win championships. And I believe that.
You have to figure out a way where you can get everybody to buy in, not to just what you're doing on the court, but to really be part of something themselves, where they have a good time, they win, we party, we have fun, we sing. We do videos, we do practical jokes, but that never gets away from when we hit the court, the sweat and the bodies are colliding, and that's the way it is.
So for 30 years, I've had so many people that have helped me along the way, and supported me because my mind was exactly where you said. It would be the Heat became first. I loved that first team. Tim Hardaway, Dan Marley, Keith Askins, Jamal Mashburn, Alonzo Mourning, P.J. Brown. I love that team. I love that team.
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Chapter 6: How do both coaches reflect on their relationships with players?
All that shit was stressful. It looked stressful from where I was standing. And you volunteered the story of breaking down, sobbing at your desk, and Alonzo Mourning coming in in uniform and standing over you and tell you to do your fucking job. I never understood why you volunteered that story.
I don't know either. I mean, the first person who saw me walk out of the locker room was Tim Donovan. He's always standing right there by the stairwell. This is American Airlines Arena. And we had just lost the first year the arena opened and we had lost in the seventh game by a point. And. And it was the first time that I really couldn't talk to my players.
You know, I mean, for a while I needed to I need a little time. And so I went into my office. I don't believe in postgame meetings with your coaches like immediately. you know, cause I got to take care of myself. And so the other coaches went to the video room, we had desks in there and they waited.
And I just, I just, I was in that, that office and it all just came down, you know, I don't know, it could have been, you know, everything culminating from, you know, when I was raised, you know, with my father, what went on in LA or at the end, what went on at the end in New York. And, And here I am again, losing, you know, failing. And and it's just I was overwhelmed.
So, yeah, I just I cracked, you know, at that time. And I do. I forgot I lost track of time, you know, and but they the tears felt good. They felt great. I just let them go. And then I felt his presence of Zoe. He opened the door and Zoe sculpted, he was in his basketball shorts and he was standing there like this and he's going, And I'll never forget it.
He said, coach, I know you're feeling low. He said, but you got to come back in here and you got to finish the season. And he just filled me up. He said, I know and I can relate to how low you are. He just filled me up. I walked in and they were all they were all in that locker room.
A bunch of gladiators, you know, you know, half naked, you know, some still in their uniforms and just sitting there. And I'll never forget when I walked in, they straightened up in their chairs. You know, they just sort of straightened up for a minute for the coach. And, you know, that made me even feel good or better. You know, I mean, that made me feel better because,
They knew how hard I took it. And it was my job to make sure I could give them some solace in this moment because we had been through this like three years now.
Everyone knew the team was going to be broken up after that. Everyone knew they'd given you everything that they had. They lost as a one seed to an eight seed on a bounce. And so it becomes a failure at the end. They're broken in that locker room. When you're saying it's your darkest, you're going out there and you've got to summon something for them now.
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Chapter 7: What regrets do the coaches express about their careers?
6-20-06, we're going to be world champions. Get that in your mind. And Gary Payton, I love him to death. I just saw him the other day. He showed me his 15-strong card. It's a credit card. It's not a credit card, but it's a real card. 15 strong, 250,000 cards we used to put in there and we used to believe that what we put into that pit, that little silver pit every night were more than cards.
They had to put something personal in there, rosary beads, your mother's pictures, your family, whatever it is, something that counted was in there.
That locker room was a bit religious. There's a picture of you with your arms extended that's a bit messianic.
They got me at the right time when I was probably yelling and screaming.
That was the start of the cult. The cult and culture started around there, where you're all of a sudden now your championship, Riley, in Miami.
Well, Peyton said to me, OK, coach, I see the date. But how are we going to do it? What are you going to do to help us get there? I mean, he laid it right on me. We're down 0-2, and we did not play well in Dallas. And I said, Gary, if you'll just follow me, we will get it done. I didn't say that with an arrogance or a hubris. It might sound like it.
I said, you've got to follow me now from game to game because we did not execute worth a damn down there. We didn't do the things that we talked about doing after we beat Detroit in that glorious sixth game win here in Miami. And for the next four games, then we just turned Dwayne loose. who at that time became the greatest player in the world during those two weeks. He was incredible.
35 a game, averaging 18, 19 free throws a game. God bless you, Mark Cuban. God bless you. I know he was upset with the officiating, but Dwayne earned that. God bless you, Avery Johnson, because you never stopped doubling Shaq. Yeah. But I'm not going to second guess anybody. I'm just going to say to myself that, you know, Gary, follow me. We will get this done.
On the back of Dwayne, on the great play of Shaquille and Alonso, and then the timeliness of Udonis Haslam making key plays in the fourth quarter of game six. James Posey making a three from the corner. And James Posey, who is not a great one-on-one player, getting caught with the ball with three seconds on the shot clock, had nothing to do with it. He put it on the floor and made a runner play.
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Chapter 8: How do Pat Riley and Stan Van Gundy view the future of coaching in the NBA?
out. But what you're talking about, Pat, correct me if I'm wrong, you're not just talking about the schedule. When you say, I wish I could, what you're saying is the demands of the job are such that if you're going to be obsessed enough to be excellent, that combined with the schedule makes it almost fundamentally impossible for someone to be a present father and husband.
Maybe some figure it out because they've got some magical stardust, but you thought you had to be working 20 hours a week, correct? Or 20 hours a day. We did.
But Chris and I figured it out. I mean, we figured it out and you understand it. So, I mean, just the nature of the job for 57 years is that our life was from September until the end of the season, April, May, June.
you're in this life and it could be a wonderful orient express ride or a train wreck and you have to go through that and your your life is owned by a schedule and you have to work everything around that schedule that's all there is to it and so you know when you have that kind of schedule and then your vacation time is simply from august to september 1st and that's it every year thank you buddy thank you for everything yeah
I'm sorry.
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