Chapter 1: What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
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Sanni on Sanni, eikä sisustusinfluensseri. Kun Sanni päättää maalata keittiönsä, pitää värien olla valkattuina, varusteet viimeisen päälle ja game plan valmiina. Niinpä hän suuntaa K-rautaan, jolloin maalaus onnistuu. Pinnalla millä hyvänsä. Maaliostoksilla voit voittaa myös 10 tonnia rempparahaa. K-rauta auttaa alkuun ja eteenpäin.
Hello, I'm James Reynolds. Welcome to the documentary from the BBC World Service. In BBC Conversations we bring people together to share their personal experiences of major news stories. This time our guests share their experiences of Ebola.
Chapter 2: What is Ebola and how does it spread?
Ebola is a disease caused by a virus. Outbreaks between people start when somebody catches it from an infected animal. Ebola is rare, but the symptoms are severe. They often lead to death.
As we record this program on Friday lunchtime, the outbreak in the east of the Democratic Republic of Congo is believed to have killed at least 220 people with more than a thousand suspected cases. But as we'll hear, that is likely to be an underestimate.
To make matters worse, not only is this area of Central Africa badly affected by conflict, there also isn't currently a vaccine for this particular strain of the virus. Later we'll hear from someone who survived the disease. Firstly, though, to get a sense of the situation on the ground, my colleague Rahul Tandon brought together Dr. Mananji Mangundu from Oxfam. He's just returned from the DRC.
Chapter 3: What challenges are faced in the Democratic Republic of Congo during the outbreak?
Bronwyn Nicol from the International Federation of Red Cross and Red Crescent Societies is a senior officer for public health in emergencies. I think the scale, we don't really have a very good picture of it. We know it's big, but we have a huge amount of suspect cases, way bigger than what we have in confirmed cases. And that's the piece that's really worrying right now. So how much do we not know about transmission chains?
How many deaths have we missed? Contact tracing, I mean, at the beginning of every outbreak, contact tracing is always hard. It's a struggle right now as well, and that's a bit of a bright product of the fact that people are scared, and that's normal, that's natural. And I think that's what's driving quite a bit of the community resistance to some of the standard response options that we have for Ebola, which includes safe burials, contact tracing, surveillance. But it is really that fear that is driving a lot of that.
reluctance and difficulty for those systems to be fully put in place. I can't agree more. This is our worry. When you look at various sources, there are different numbers coming from different sources. With the way the community are so fearful and some of them try to avoid coming to the senders, treatment senders, it will make even more cases. The other also worrying thing is the slow movement in terms of the samples going for laboratory tests.
Se on semmoinen asia, jota me katsomme. Jos katsotaan, kuinka monta näyttäjää on saavutettu ja kuinka monta syrjintää on saavutettu, niin se on melko iso ero. Joten joo, olen täysin samaa mieltä, että voisi olla paljon lisää syrjintää.
Can you explain in a little bit more detail, Menenji, and then Bronwyn, if you want to pick up that word fear, you can understand why people are fearful. This is a disease that kills many, many people. Give us some of the examples of the stories of fear that you're hearing, Menenji. You know, there was quite a lot of people dying.
This is where people are so worried. The other challenge is that, you know, they have their own tradition. They used to bury their dead bodies of their family members, of which some of them, they still want to use that. And some are also afraid that, you know,
It can continue to spread the infections. It's based on not understanding more about the disease and how it is spread and how it can be stopped from spreading and so forth. Our teams now are saying more community engagement efforts needs to be done. I think more focus has been on treatment centers and make sure that we have isolation managing even the barriers and so forth. But the bigger part of it is the community engagement and make sure people really
No, and I mean that's one of the big challenges we're seeing right now, particularly around safe and dignified burials, which is a different process we need to follow for deaths of people who have died of confirmed or suspected hemorrhagic fever.
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Chapter 4: How does fear affect community response to Ebola?
Se on vaihtoehto. Voit ajatella, mitä olisi tapahtunut omalla perheelläsi, jos kukaan, jonka rakastat, kuolee. Sitten ihmiset näyttävät, että heidät tuottavat perheellä, mutta heidät tuottavat henkilökohtaisen terveydenhuoltoon. Ei voi tehdä yleisiä asioita, joita voit tehdä, jotta voit sanoa hyvää huolta rakastajalle. Se tekee sitä hieman vaikeampaa. Se tekee sitä hieman vaikeampaa.
That was already mentioned as well as around this community engagement is making sure that communities are part of this process. How can we still do burials in a way that keeps everyone safe, but then can still respect tradition as much as we can? And that's not an easy balance to find. And that's something that will continue to evolve as this outbreak continues. This has been a very difficult time for you, hasn't it? Not just in terms of dealing with this. You've lost colleagues to Ebola.
Yeah, we sadly did lose three volunteers from the DRC Red Cross. They passed away in May. They passed away before the outbreak was actually declared. They had been working in support of Ministry of Health and regular long-term programming that they support in Ituri province, helping with burials for anything, any cause of death at the request of the government. So in those circumstances, they do wear personal protective equipment, but it's very minimal. It's just our standard precaution. It's not the full suite of protective equipment that we
Todennäköisesti he eivät olleet seuraamassa Ebola-protokollia, koska heillä ei ollut syytä seuraamaan sitä. Ja toivottavasti he ovat menneet pois ja se on uskottu, että se oli Ebola-suhteen vuoksi. Tiedätkö, me olemme niin miettineet, koska ei ole vaksinoita. Kuten se, mikä tapahtui viime vuonna Kasaan, meillä oli vaksinoita. Joten ainakin oli jotain huolta, vaikka se ei ole 100%.
Mutta se taito sanoa, että ei ole vaksinaa, että menen eri aloille, jotta voin tehdä sopimuksia, vaikka minulla on turvallisuutta ja niin edelleen. Ja tehdä kaikki nämä harjoitukset, kuten henkilökohtaisuus, ja varmistaa, ettei käydä yhteydessä fluiden kanssa ja niin edelleen. Mutta edelleen asiakkaat ovat taitoja sanoa, että jos saan sen, mitä tapahtuu?
This Bundabujo virus, yet vaccine. I think the fear would be less on our staff. Even myself, I'm worried. Ebola is not new in these areas. And the way we normally respond to Ebola tends to have a lot of
messaging and discussion around vaccination and that's a piece that we're not talking about right now as we're saying there is no vaccine and that is where people are questioning what is happening in terms of saying we know what Ebola is. There is a vaccine. Why is the vaccine being hidden? Why is the vaccine not being shared with us? So going through the fact that there are different types of Ebola is not the easiest thing
It's complicated for even those who spend a lot of time working on Ebola. For the teams from DRC Red Cross who respond to this often. It's almost like going back 10 years to before we had the vaccine, which changes how we do our staff health protocols. And really, as was mentioned, affects the levels of fear that staff also have in the response. And people are scared, aren't they? And understandably scared of the virus, of contracting it.
How do you balance that fear? Because it drives us to do things that we shouldn't. I think this comes back to the point around community engagement and making sure that community concerns are heard.
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Chapter 5: What role does misinformation play in Ebola outbreaks?
How do we make quarantine, if that is something that government would like to do, how do we make that work for communities? How do we make sure that mental health is also taken into account? How do we make sure that we're also thinking around protection and gender concerns that are also quite prevalent in Eastern DRC? And these aren't easy topics, but it really is listening to communities, making sure we're feeding back on why things are happening in a certain way and being clear on what can be modified, but how can we still keep everyone safe?
It's very easy for me to say that. It's way harder for teens to get that in place. Bronwyn Nicol and Dr. Mananjit Mangundu. Let's pick up on that point about efforts to build trust with communities deeply impacted by Ebola. You might have seen that angry relatives recently set fire to a hospital in the DRC after health workers refused to release the body of a family member who had died from the disease.
There are reasons for that. Ebola is spread through contact with bodily fluids, such as blood and vomit. The hospital simply wanted to avoid the risk of contamination. Dead bodies can be particularly infectious. We wanted then to discuss misinformation surrounding Ebola. So we brought together two journalists who covered outbreaks in 2014 and 2016.
Sherry Fink worked in Liberia, Guinea and Sierra Leone reporting for the New York Times. And Umaro Fofana in Sierra Leone reported for the BBC and other international media. Ambulances were attacked by people in Sierra Leone as well as in Liberia. Treatment centers were also attacked. And I think it is very important for the people to be made to understand what this whole thing is about. And there is this thing that is difficult to understand by so many people.
että jos sanot, että tämä syöpä on ennustettava, joka oli se, joka oli annettu Sierra Leoneissa, Liberiassa ja luulen, että Guineaissa alkuperäisessä hetkessä, niin miksi sinä otat lasteni? Sinä sanot, että haluan ottaa heitä syöpälle. Heidän pitäisi olla parantuneet, mutta sinä sanot, että se ei ole ennustettava. Joten ihmiset löysivät sen hyvin vaikeaksi Sierra Leoneissa ymmärtää, mutta lopulta messagingi muuttui, ja se teki ihmisiä ymmärtämään, miten osallistua terveydenhoitajille, ja kuten edustajat olivat miettineet. Mutta kyllä, se on ymmärrettävää.
Aguirin Umaruun. Se on hyvin yleistä, mutta luulen, että joskus ihmiset, jotka eivät elä kaupungissa, jotka ovat vaikuttaneet, voivat sanoa, että se kuulostaa niin yllättävältä, että se on niin väärä ongelma.
Why aren't people cooperating? Why are they reacting this way? But that's sort of like exoticizing the matter, because we saw the same thing or very parallel thing during COVID, which I also reported on. And literally while I was waiting for this interview to start, I'm working on a book about COVID. I was going over a section on Italy, reading a report from the spring of 2020 in Corriere, talking about a hospital at the epicenter of the new outbreak there, where the management was prohibiting families from having contact
with their loved ones' bodies and the families protested to the local government and the hospital had to backtrack. So this is a human reaction to fear. We have to understand it and have compassion. I also remember in West Africa the responders were really beating up on themselves because of those messages like you just heard from Umaru or the focus on bats and they kept changing their educational approach
Mutta joskus se, mitä he löysivät, ei ollut niin kauan, kun ihmiset alkoivat kuunnella eri yhteisöissä, että yhteisö saati sen. Ja sitten heidän yhteistyönsä on niin tarpeeksi, että ihmiset voivat käsitellä kuolemia ja saada kontroliin asioista.
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Chapter 6: How do health workers engage with communities affected by Ebola?
Ja lapset olivat syötäneet vettä. Ja silloin tuli luonnollinen, luonnollinen vaikutus. Silloin Ebola-vaihto pysähtyi kontroliin. Joten paljon opetusta on tarpeellista. Toisaalta olisi kokoomus, kulttuuri sekä paranoia sekä kaikkea muualla. Se tekee sitä todella huonommaksi kuin nyt. Pidäkäämme takaisin sinun kokemuksesi, kun olit hyvin lähellä uudistusta. Mitä se oli?
BBC had a very strict regimental approach to reporting on Ebola. They wouldn't allow me to go to a treatment center unless I had a biohazard advisor who would be sure that I didn't touch places I was supposed not to touch. I'd be in my protective gear where I had to be in my protective gear.
ja pysyvät ristiriitaani, esimerkiksi jos kotona oli karanteeni, koska jotkut ihmiset olivat uskoneet käyttää virusia, pysyvät ristiriitaani ja se tuli sellaiseen regimenin, jota minun täytyy mennä koko ajan, joten se tuli osa minun psykiatrian. Mutta jollain vaiheessa isäni,
Hän oli kaksi vuotta vanha. Hänellä oli todella suuri vihreys, noin 38 astetta. Ajattelimme, että hänellä olisi ollut infekti. Jos hänellä olisi ollut infekti, minä olisin ollut ainoa konduita, jossa hänellä olisi ollut infekti, koska minä jatkoin menemään sisään ja ulos. Journalistit Umaro Fofana ja Sherry Fink.
I'm James Reynolds. You're listening to the documentary from the BBC World Service.
Mitä nämä kolme juhlateltaa tekee mun pihassa? Eikös teillä ollut se norsunluuhääpäivä tulossa? Mikä? Mistä sä puhut? Vai pääsikö teidän esikoinen ripiltä? Armeijasta? Oliko jollain synttärit tänä kesänä? Ei meillä kyllä nyt ole mitään juhlianäköpiiristä. So, so, kuule. Kyllä syytä aina juhlaan löytyy, koska Itse asiassa. Itse asiassa. Viilteemasta löytyy edulliset välineet hommaan kuin hommaan. Oli kysymys sitten omasta tai kaverin projektista. Itse asiassa. Viilteemasta.
Tee säästämisestä numero. Valitse itsellesi sopiva summa ja aloita kuukausisäästäminen S-Pankissa. S-Pankki. Suomen mutkattomin pankki.
Sanni on Sanni, eikä sisustusinfluensseri. Kun Sanni päättää maalata keittiönsä, pitää värien olla valkattuina, varusteet viimeisen päälle ja game plan valmiina. Niinpä hän suuntaa K-rautaan, jolloin maalaus onnistuu. Pinnalla millä hyvänsä. Maaliostoksilla voit voittaa myös 10 tonnia rempparahaa. K-rauta. Auttaa alkuun ja eteenpäin.
For our final conversation, we're going to hear from Harriet in the Liberian capital, Monrovia. She contracted Ebola during an outbreak in the country a decade ago. We brought her together with Maggie in Sierra Leone, a community nurse in Freetown. Maggie lost eight close relatives to Ebola and now works with patients to deal with the aftermath of the disease. Harriet explains that Ebola had a devastating impact on her family.
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Chapter 7: What personal experiences do survivors share about their battle with Ebola?
I said to her, if I don't survive, please go and continue your life along with your siblings and family members and just be a good person. I have children. I can't imagine ever trying to have to make a call to my child thinking that I was about to die and telling them to get on with their life. I want to bring Maggie back into the conversation. We're going to go back to Harriet and look at what happened after that. But you must have seen and you must have heard many conversations like this, Maggie.
Yes, yes. During that time when the epidemic was all over Freetown, I had my uncle that was seriously healed by then. We had a three days lockdown in Freetown that they asked everyone to be at home. So medical practitioners were going house by house checking for those that are seriously healed so that they can actually test them to know if they are having Ebola.
Kun lääkärit tuli ja kysyivät, onko sinulla joku, joka on syövän? Isä oli, että kyllä, isä on ylös, hän ei tunnu hyvin. Joten automaattisesti meidän kaupungissa kaikki panikkoivat, koska ymmärrämme, mitä se tarkoittaa. He testasivat itseäni, joka oli syövän, tämän päivän ajan.
mutta se ei ollut ebola. Se oli vain tyypillinen malaria. Se taisi olla hyvin haastava kokemus. Kun joku on syvällä ja ebola on ympäri, kaikki suosittelevat, että se on pahinta. Harriet, mennään taas sinulle. Olet siellä. Tällä hetkellä, ovatko he kertoneet sinulle, että sinulla on ebola? Silloin ei kukaan testannut minua. Se oli vain järjestelmä. Se paikka oli asennettu niin, että olisit täällä, ja jos olisit syönyt viikon tai päivän aikana, niin
They come and pick the bodies out and go and just get you off the island. So I stayed at Redemption for like three weeks plus. It was so sad. It was very, very sad. So I met this lady. She came in with her children, five children. She had lost her husband home and then they brought her with the children. And then she lost the first two right before my eyes. And after a while she lost the other one.
Joten hän oli kaksi vuotta vanhempi. Sitten toinen meni. Hän oli mentaalisesti syvällä. Silloin ajattelin, että minun lapseni olivat jo syvällä. Mutta en tiedä, koska ei ollut tarkoitusta kutsua isäni tai perheenjohtajani kysymään, mitä tapahtui. Eikä kukaan tiedä, missä olin. Sitten voin kysyä sinulle kysymyksen.
Working with survivors from all the streets within Sierra Leone, they have different complications. Can you please highlight some of the complications that you faced? So I can actually compare if these are the same complications that survivors in Freetown are facing or in Sierra Leone are facing. When I first contacted the virus, I started to feel weak and I started to vomit. And then I started to bleed to my nose.
These are common signs. And also from my own experience, I noticed most of them will be visually impaired. Some of them will have
heidän ääneensä on ongelma, jolloin jotkut ovat tyhjentäneet, ja olen huomannut, että suurin osa niistä on kärsivät. Jotkut niistä on todennäköisesti muuttuneet. Nämä ovat jotkut seuraukset, joiden jälkeen olet elänyt koko pandemian jälkeen. Nämä ovat jotkut seuraukset, joiden jälkeen olet elänyt koko pandemian jälkeen.
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