Sheba: Just Like Us?

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The Documentary Podcast 51 min 7 speakers 8 chapters transcribed 3 months ago
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What is Sheba's story and its significance?

Carine Torbey 0:00
This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK.
José Ramón Fernández 0:21
Espoon Kolari Korjaamo.
Charlotte Uhlenbroek 0:45
I'm Charlotte Ullenbrook, a zoologist, and you're listening to Sheba, just like us, from the documentary on the BBC World Service. Sheba is a chimpanzee. She was born in a cage, raised in a zoo, and then spent 24 years in a laboratory. As I learnt more about her story, I kept hearing the phrase, we have the need, but do we have the right? Having studied chimps in the wild for years, I've always found it hard to accept experimentation on animals, especially ones that are so like us. The justifications and counter-arguments have raged for decades, and although attitudes have changed, the debate is still unresolved. In the next hour, I explore our conflicted relationship with the animals we use and the struggle to set them free.
Charlotte Uhlenbroek 1:44
But first, let's meet Sheba.

How did Sheba's upbringing influence her life?

Nick Pyenson 1:49
Holy moly.
Charlotte Uhlenbroek 1:50
Hi, Sheba. How you doing, girly? What you got around your neck? Sheba is 44 years old. Primate researcher and activist Bob Ingersoll knew her for the first 25 years of her life. But this is their first reunion since 2006, when she finally left a research laboratory and came here to Sanctuary at Chimp Haven in Louisiana. It's a moment of unmistakable joy.
Nick Pyenson 2:19
You are really beautiful. How old is she now?
Charlotte Uhlenbroek 2:22
She's 44.
Nick Pyenson 2:22
It was emotional and wonderful and joyous. Seeing Sheba just made all my memories of all the Oklahoma chimps rush into my heart. For many years, Sheba had to endure a lot of things that were not fair and were not right and needed to be changed. and Sheba was looking at us, you know, knowing, hey, everything's okay. That's been a crazy journey, huh? You had a long way to come to the promised land.
Charlotte Uhlenbroek 2:58
Listening to Bob talk about Sheba and the memories it brings back of her mother Lily and her father Nim, it's almost impossible to imagine the dark history they all share.
Dr. Lisa Jones-Engel 3:10
What they knew and understand was I was causing them terror. I was a threat.

What ethical dilemmas surround chimpanzee research?

Dr. Lisa Jones-Engel 3:17
I was hurting them.
Charlotte Uhlenbroek 3:20
It started with a dream. Chimps and other primates are so close to us genetically, so sophisticated in their behaviour. Surely, under the right conditions, we could learn more about ourselves.
Dr. Lisa Jones-Engel 3:36
There is something different about the look that comes back from a primate, a non-human primate. And they know that you know that they are just another version of us.
Charlotte Uhlenbroek 3:47
And so we are just versions of each other. From the 1960s onwards, a series of medical, behavioral and social experiments took place chasing that dream. But for the animals involved... It turned into a nightmare. Whatever similarities, chimps aren't almost human. They're chimps. The scientific basis of this work was flawed and worse, often meaningless and cruel. By 2016 in the US, all invasive medical experimentation on chimps came to an end. Other primates, like monkeys, were not so lucky, and experimentation continues. But chimps live a long time, so the problem didn't simply evaporate. As funding dried up from 2011 onwards, thousands of chimps had nowhere to go.
Nick Pyenson 4:43
It's a thrill for me to be able to see them here and to know that they are here, they're safe. Yeah, so I mean, it's just nice seeing them living like they're meant to, interacting with other chimps.
Charlotte Uhlenbroek 4:54
This is Chimp Haven in Louisiana, and it was set up back in 1973 to provide sanctuary to laboratory chimps. Amy Fultz is one of the founders.
Nick Pyenson 5:06
At the time, I was actually working in a biomedical research facility with chimpanzees doing behavioral research. Back in the late 80s and early 90s, chimpanzees were mostly being used in HIV and AIDS research. And chimpanzees actually didn't turn out to be a great model for AIDS. And so the funding was sort of falling off for that type of research. Chimpanzees are a long-lived species. They live into their 60s sometimes, and they're very expensive to care for. And so myself and my co-founders wanted to provide a solution to this need for sanctuary for chimpanzees being retired from biomedical research.
Charlotte Uhlenbroek 5:53
There are 300 chimps here and it costs about $29,000 to keep just one for a year. That's nearly $9 million to provide food, medical care, enrichment and all their basic needs.

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