30 years ago the All Blacks won their first test series on South African soil. Andy Rowe sits down with two men who were there: Frank Bunce and Justin Marshall. They relive the 1992 return tour after apartheid, the intimidation of Ellis Park, Jonah Lomu's 1995 World Cup, and the week in Pretoria where Sean Fitzpatrick told the team: "There's no way we're going to Ellis Park with the series on the line." Plus: the Michael Brial fight, the famous "too old, too slow, two tries" headline, Bunce's legendary partnership with Walter Little, why the All Blacks haven't settled a midfield since Ma'a Nonu and Conrad Smith, and whether this All Blacks side can win the series again. Subscribe for weekly rugby chat from Justin Marshall, Kieran Read, Jeremy Paul and Andy Rowe. 00:00 Intro: two members of the '96 All Blacks in studio 00:28 1992: the first tour back after apartheid 02:19 Danie Gerber: greatest centre ever? 03:56 Ellis Park: walking into the lion's den 07:31 1995: Jonah Lomu changes rugby forever 11:58 Running out for the '95 World Cup final and Mandela 14:25 Turning the page to the 1996 tour 15:13 The midweekers: why a squad of 36 won the series 17:03 Tri Nations battles and Bunce's winner in Brisbane 19:28 "We win it in Pretoria" — Fitzpatrick's message 22:16 Facing that Springbok side 24:07 John Preston, Zinzan's drop goal and the pivotal moments 26:23 The goal-line stand 28:40 The toughest Springboks Bunce ever faced Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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