American higher education is under attack. Project 2025 laid out the battle plan pretty clearly: Get rid of the Department of Education, shut off federal funding, take control of the accreditation system, and take down diversity, equity, and inclusion programs. And in the end, change what students are encouraged to study and what professors are allowed to teach. The questions we’re left with is why? And is it working? Today’s guest is Michael Roth, president of Wesleyan University. He’s a vocal defender of higher education. But he’s also honest about where things have gone wrong and what needs to change. Michael and Sean discuss the Trump administration’s efforts to change universities and colleges, the potential societal effects of that effort, political biases on campus, the dangers of ideological conformity, and the value of a college education (what is even the point of going to college any more?). Host: Sean Illing (@SeanIlling)Guest: Michael Roth, president of Wesleyan University and author of numerous books including Beyond the University: Why Liberal Education Matters and The Student: A Short History. Mentioned in this episode: Host Sean Illing’s interview with reporter James Walsh about AI on campuses. We would love to hear from you. To tell us what we thought of this episode, email us at [email protected] or leave us a voicemail at 1-800-214-5749. Your comments and questions help us make a better show. Listen to The Gray Area ad-free by becoming a Vox Member: vox.com/members And you can watch new episodes of The Gray Area on YouTube. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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“What did the council decide on item 42?” — answered with the speaker and the moment.

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