The Collapse of Our Mythology: Can Humanity Choose What's Next? with Charles Eisenstein
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What is the story of separation and how does it shape our civilization?
This is the biggest change in my beliefs that has happened over the last 10 years. I no longer think that ecological limits, resource limits, energy limits are gonna force us to change. If we wanna continue the story of separation, we will do so at a greater and greater and greater cost to the rest of life and to our own souls. The increasingly difficult conditions to sustain that. are a louder and louder invitation for us to ask, what do we want to sustain? How do we want to live? How do we want to be? Gotta bring it all in. Once we do that, then let's start asking, what is mine to do?
You're listening to The Great Simplification. I'm Nate Hagens. On this show we describe how energy, the economy, the environment, and human behavior all fit together and what it might mean for our future. By sharing insights from global thinkers, we hope to inform and inspire more humans to play emergent roles in the coming Great Simplification. Today I'm joined by frequently requested guest, Charles Eisenstein, to discuss how the story of separation permeates through our culture and our institutions, shaping how we relate to each other and the natural world. Most importantly, Charles and I explore how the mindset of separation causes us to get in our own way as we navigate the unfortunate. Unfolding more than human predicament.
Charles Eisenstein is an American author, public speaker, and teacher whose work focuses on civilization, consciousness, money, and human cultural evolution. He graduated from Yale University in 1989 with a degree in mathematics and philosophy, and spent the following decade at a Chinese English translator before turning to writing and speaking philosophy. Time, including as the former speechwriter for RFK Jr., Charles is the author of many books, including The Ascent of Humanity, Sacred Economics, and The More Beautiful World Our Hearts Know Is Possible. In this conversation, Charles and I wind through economics, money, climate, and language, tracing how the stories we tell ourselves ultimately
shape the physical world that we live in. and how we experience that world. We talk about why separation sits at the root of so many of our largest crises today, and why trying to solve those crises by using the same narratives that created them gets us nowhere. Instead, Charles argues that by reframing our stories towards one of inter-being, we can start planting the seeds of a different system, even as the old one falls apart around us. With that, please welcome Charles Eisenstein.
Charles Eisenstein, great to see you. Good to be here, Nate. Happy to be talking to you. So you are probably one of the top five most requested uh guests uh over the years. So I'm I'm glad we're we're finally able to schedule this and have a conversation. You have spent over two decades writing and speaking about foundational stories and mythologies that underpin human civilization. And you especially focus on the concept or the idea of separation. So before we go down into any specific rabbit holes, maybe you can share why you've centered your work so heavily around the stories that we tell ourselves and maybe give a concrete example about how our current cultural mythology actually shapes everyday lived experience.
Okay. Yeah. Uh and I'll try to do it without sounding like I'm I'm expressing metaphysical cliches that everybody's familiar with already. Uh but the basic idea is that the world that we collectively create is a product of the stories that we tell ourselves and each other about who we are, why we're here, what the nature of reality is, what the purpose of human life is. What the purpose of the human species is, where we fit in the totality of the cosmos, like all these things that every culture talks about. Some of these stories take the form of explicit ideologies, and others are implicit. The deepest one that I've explored, I call it the story of separation, which essentially says, Who are you? You are a separate individual.
That could take the form of a soul encased in flesh. It could be a self-interest maximizing genetically programmed machine.
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Chapters
8 chapters
1
What is the story of separation and how does it shape our civilization?
0:00–14:15
2
How did the story of separation originate and evolve with technology and language?
14:15–28:08
3
What is the alternative narrative of inter‑being and how might it change our relationship to nature?
28:08–41:46
4
How does the current monetary system reinforce separation and what could a different money look like?
41:46–53:45
5
Why do we default to war metaphors for crises and what does that reveal about our myths?
53:45–1:05:04
6
What role do grief and ritual play in cultural transformation and personal healing?
1:05:04–1:16:51
7
How can individuals act now—what concrete steps can listeners take today?
1:16:51–1:26:38
8
What questions should we keep asking to move toward a more inter‑connected future?
1:26:38–1:38:01
Speakers
1 identifiedMore from The Great Simplification with Nate Hagens
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