Chapter 1: What is discussed at the start of this section?
The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day.
Nice to meet you. Great to meet you, man. It's weird when you've seen someone in so many fucking movies and then you meet them in real life. Like, okay, just a regular person right there. Yeah. Staring me in the face.
He just took a leak.
Yeah. Dude, you've been in some fucking banger movies, man. It's like you've had an incredible career. Yeah. Pull that sucker.
Pull it towards me. Yeah. All right. Very good. Yeah. It's been a long, strange trip. It's been a wild one, huh? How old were you? All right. So I'm like 12 years old. I don't have a winter sport. My mother doesn't know what to do with me. And my next door neighbor, he lived like four houses down. He took an acting class at the Paul Robeson Center of Performing Arts.
And so my mother signed me up so that I could get picked up by his mom. you know, take into acting class in the winter and get dropped off, you know, and be at home. And I went there, and this head of a local theater company came by to teach an improv seminar kind of thing. I mean, I'm 12 years old, right? And afterwards in the parking lot, he said, hey, you want to be in a play?
I said, what do you mean? He says, I got a part of a guy who's a knight. You get to have a sword. And I said, well, I have any lines? He said, you'll have one line. I said, all right, cool. And I asked my mom, and she said, do I have to pay? And I said, I don't think so. I think they're going to pay me. So I went and I did this play, and it was George Bernard Shaw's St.
Joan at the McCarter Theater in New Jersey. That was a real play. Yeah, it was a proper play. And it was an incredible experience, to be honest with you, because my parents – hated their jobs.
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Chapter 2: How did Ethan Hawke's childhood influence his acting career?
They would go to work, and their life happened on the periphery of their employment. My mom would take the train to New York, and so she wouldn't get home till 7.30, something she would leave at dawn. The shoes is miserable at work. I mean, and I went to this rehearsal and everyone was having they were talking about whether or not God existed. They were talking about what they believed in.
They would dress up in these crazy outfits. And then we did the play and they got a standing ovation. And it was it was so much fun. And it was the first time I was like, you could do this for a living. Yeah. You know, a lot of the actors aren't people you've heard of or anything like that, but they were real actors and they loved their job.
And the rehearsal room was so kind of thrilling watching them figure out where people should stand and what was important and what was the scene about and what was the theme of the play and how could this scene fit in with the larger context. And I just decided that's what I wanted to do. And a lot of kids want to act, so that doesn't mean very much, but I...
And through this other friend of mine, I started hearing about open casting calls in New York. And I asked my mom if I could go on some of these big auditions. And again, she said, is it going to cost me any money? She said, if I paid for my own train fare, I could go to these auditions. And so I took some Polaroids and... went on a few of these big auditions and I got one of them.
And it was for this big... In 1984, it was a $30 million movie directed by the guy who'd just done Gremlins, right? Joe Dante. And I thought I was a made man. I mean, it was just, it was absolutely incredible to be sucked out of suburban America and brought to LA. My first scene partner was River Phoenix. And all of a sudden I'm in LA and, you know, my mom couldn't quit her job or anything.
So my mom had a really turbulent relationship with her mother. But her mother and she didn't really know each other. And so her mother said she'd be my guardian. And my mom designed this as a way to maybe have a family healing. But my grandmother was a piece of work. And we lived together in Koreatown. That's what they called it. And it was wild. And I remember we drove into Paramount Studios.
You know, you can picture it. the image from The Godfather, and you had the big gates. And my grandmother had always wanted to be a movie star. Wow. You know, and she was from here. She's from Austin, Texas. Well, really Fort Worth. But, you know, she would talk about going to see Gone with the Wind at the Paramount here in Austin, you know.
And she would watch Gone with the Wind, you know, three times a week. And she had dreamed of being a movie star. And I remember we were in a big van driving me to set the first day, and we went through the gates of...
paramount opening up and she was smoking an eve cigarette in the van of course it's 1984 and she's just like yeah my first time in hollywood as a fucking guardian you know and uh and so the whole child actor thing is was a trip and i finished the movie and there's a lot of drama um involved in that if i was to complete that story But I finished it. The movie was a big turkey.
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Chapter 3: What pivotal moment changed Ethan Hawke's perspective on acting?
It's so good for them. Get them singing lessons. It's so good for them. Sing in the church choir. It's so good for them. But to be a professional actor at a young age is... It's dangerous in extremely insidious ways that are very, very hard to perceive when it's happening. That's a great way to put it.
Yeah. I think it completely impedes your developmental process. The way I liken it to is like concrete. When you make concrete, there's a bunch of very specific ingredients. You put them with very specific mixture. Like you have to have this amount of water, that amount of sand, this amount of rocks, all this. If it's off, it's never fixed. You can't add water after it's cured. It's done.
It's fucked forever. This is bad concrete now. And this is what happens to a lot of young human beings that become famous, whether it's through acting or singing.
Yeah, and it's not just fame. That analogy works for all walks of life, really. You know, if you have a really... Something... really traumatic happens in childhood, it's very hard to recover. It's a tremendous amount of work to recover. And I agree with you. Like, I think celebrity is like, it's like a tiny drop of mercury or it's poison. It's poison for your brain.
Now, if you're mature, you can handle it. And if you get it in slow, like I got it in slow increments. Dead Poets Society happened. I had a little taste of fame, but I wasn't, nobody knew my name. You could go to restaurants. Yeah, it was that kid from Dead Poets Society. Oh, look at him.
And I got it in slow – I got to develop – what do you call it when you get a little bit of – Resistance. Yeah, resistance to it. And it came so slowly for me. I even think about people – I remember – The weekend Pretty Woman came out two days before no one had ever heard of Julia Roberts. Two days afterwards, she's the most famous woman in America. I think that's a huge thing to absorb.
I wouldn't wish that on anyone. And I know that my personality couldn't have handled it. I've worked hard to handle it as poorly or well as I have. Yeah.
I think you going back to school and living a normal life for five, six years or whatever it was before you left college, I just think that's critical. That's the developmental process of the normal maturation of a person, right? when they go through adolescence, teenage years, into college, young adult, then you can kind of handle things.
And then maybe you're also fortunate that, like you said, Dead Poets Society, you didn't get too huge from it, you just got some juice. A little bit of juice. A little bit of confidence.
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Chapter 4: How does Ethan Hawke view the impact of fame on young actors?
He would be right up your alley. A real free thinker and didn't trap himself in any way of thinking. And really fought for individual rights. And he was a great guy. I got to interview him. And he actually starred in my first movie I directed, too. So I got to know him a little bit. What was that? It's a movie called Chelsea Walls. I don't necessarily recommend you watch it.
You can if you want to. I learned a lot making it. I like it a lot. But I was learning, you know. I was learning a lot. But Chris was in it and he was amazing.
Yeah. Having known people like that is so beneficial in your life. They're not just like inspirational. It's like a mental fuel, a type of. a type of nutrient almost. It's like having a person that you know exists, that's been through something, has come out amazing, and is so not tied down to anyone's specific identity, has varied interests, pursues them all with passion. Having mentors. Yes.
It's like, you know, how are you going to be a samurai if you don't know a samurai? Right. You know? And you've got to see the way they tie their shoes. You've got to see the way they make dinner. You don't just get to see the fancy sword play. That stuff is hard-earned. And... And so I'm not scared of that. You don't have to hero worship people. You don't have to turn them into deities.
They're human beings. But when you get to experience and see that people like, oh, you don't have to lie. I knew a guy once who didn't lie. You don't have to back down when somebody says that. I watched a person not back down. You can be a good parent. You can have your children say, I love my dad. It's not going to come easy, but it can be done. And so I like heroes.
I have no, I like, I also like seeing older people Not the fixation on the 23-year-old James Dean, but a fixation on the 72-year-old Chris Christopherson. Pick whoever yours are. Muhammad Ali. I mean, there's so many amazing people that you can say like, wow, life was not always a picnic for them. How did they handle it? And then you cannot be too upset when life's not a picnic for you.
You can just ask yourself, how did you handle it?
Yeah, and I don't think there's anything wrong with really appreciating people. That concern of hero worship is legitimate because I think there are some people that will take a person and change who they are and make them not just extraordinary but not even human. Yeah, that's a mistake.
It is a mistake, but it doesn't mean you can't love and deeply appreciate who they actually are, flaws and all. Because that's what we all are. And when someone is extraordinary and they have gone through so much or they have expressed so much and they do resonate with you so much, that's a valuable person. And you should treat them like they're a valuable person.
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Chapter 5: What role does social media play in children's kindness?
But – And I think leading by example with kids is the best way with everything. My kids are both very disciplined. They get a lot of things done and they work really hard, which I'm very proud of. They're also really nice, which I'm also very proud of. I think that's the hardest fucking thing to do is just be nice, to be a kind person. The worst thing for kindness is social media.
Chapter 6: How can resilience be developed through negative experiences?
Children... in particular, are so fucking mean to each other on social media. They're so mean to each other in comments and they talk about how one of their friends is getting bullied and this person is doing this and they're leaving comments on this and from a rival high school and a this and a that and it's like...
But I also think that that process of understanding that there is this bizarre social interaction that's not real, that is a part of life, and that you have to develop a resilience to this.
Getting tough is important. I think one of the things kids are experiencing now is what I experienced with the first blush of celebrity. I mean, you want to talk about negative comments, try being an actor. Everybody's got an opinion about what a fake you are, what a phony you are. This sucks about you. This is dumb. This is what you're like. You know, I have lost...
unbelievable ridiculous amount of hours to my mother will send me a really nice review of something, something positive about me, right? I'll look at it. And my brain goes, what are the comments? Nasty. I mean, just the nastiest things. And you can't believe that some, but I don't want to, you know, give it too much time, but
Chapter 7: What insights does Ethan Hawke share about criticism and confidence?
I actually think it really makes you stronger to realize, of course, people don't like you.
Over time, it will make you stronger.
It's fine they don't like you. Guess what? Half the people every party you went to didn't like you, okay? But they're also not thinking very much about you. They're thinking about themselves. And you start to realize that this is just people talking at the barbershop. People have been gossiping throughout the history of mankind. Now you can read it if you want, but it has no... venom in it.
It's not real. And the sooner you learn that other people's opinions don't have to affect you, I think the better off you are. So in that way, it hurt me. I've seen it happen to actors, especially if you're doing stage. I'm sure with comics, when you're doing a play and you have to do it every night and you start reading a lot of bad things that people say about you, it is...
demolishing to your confidence. You know, I mean, I had this actor friend of mine, we shared a dressing room and one day he came in and he was great in the show and he came in and just his whole energy was dark. I was like, you already, I went down the rabbit hole last night. I just read what people are saying about me on the internet and everybody thinks I'm terrible in this play.
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Chapter 8: How does the concept of a beginner's mind apply to acting and life?
And I'm like, they don't like your character. People are not so brilliant. There's no geniuses out there chiming in on what a jerk you are at three in the morning. So you don't have to take it seriously. But it took him weeks to get his mojo back. Because he would step out on stage just imagining this chorus of hate.
I had the exact same conversation last night with a famous comedian friend of mine. Really? I won't say his name, but he went down a Reddit rabbit hole the other night. I don't do it anymore. I don't do it. He goes, I fucked up and I went down this rabbit hole. Don't do it. Don't do it. No good comes from it. And he was like, they fucking hate me. I go, no, no, no. They hate themselves.
They hate everything. Michael Jordan's not leaving Reddit comments. You know what I'm saying? These aren't winners. These are fucking people that are not doing what they want to be doing. And they want to hate on everybody that's out there. That's out there in the public eye. And some of it is valid.
You know, really, the scary hate is when you get hate like from Quentin Tarantino, where he's going off on that guy from There Will Be Blood. But you know, that's a great lesson.
It is, actually. There's a great lesson. You know what? I don't think Paul Dano ever knew that so many people loved him. Right. Out of nowhere. Yeah, out of nowhere. Paul Dano's just going about his life. He's got to wake up one morning and find out this director just went off on him and saying these hateful things. But...
Anybody that knows Quentin knows he just talks, talks, talks, talks, talks, talks, right? Anybody that knows Paul knows he's a great world-class human being. And, you know, and all this love for Paul's coming out. And it's a great lesson in that. You don't have to worry about the negativity that people send your way. You don't have to worry about it at all.
Even from one of the greatest actors or one of the greatest directors of all time. Yeah, yeah, it's okay.
And guess what? Every, you know, I'm positive, positive. There are great directors that think I suck. Yeah. I'm positive. Quentin at least says, you know, he just says whatever comes into his mind. I remember once I met some director, and I won't say his name, at a bar. It was a dive bar in New York. He's a really famous big shot director. He's sitting there.
And he'd just seen my most recent movie. He's like, you know, you were pretty good in that one. And in the comment was, the subtitle underneath it was, I have hated you for 27 years. It was so clear.
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