Chapter 1: What is discussed at the start of this section?
The Joe Rogan Experience.
Showing by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day.
Hello Andrew, what's happening?
Hello Joe.
Very nice to see you again. Good to see you too. So when your husband Andrew came in here, he told me about your book, and then I talked to you, and you seemed very interesting, and you gave me a little brief synopsis of it, and so then I listened to it on audio tape, and it's fucking great. crazy. And it is the occult feminism, the secret history of women's liberation.
I didn't really have much of an opinion on feminism. My opinion was, unfortunately, you run into some feminists that just seem to not like men for whatever reason. And there's a lot of people in this world that aren't happy with their position or station in life. But I didn't really think too much into how this all got started until I listened to your book, and I'm like, this is kind of bonkers.
So before we get into your book, how did you decide to write about this? What was your little journey or big journey? Yeah, it's kind of a big journey. So when I was growing up, I was like in all the advanced kid classes. And from the time I was in like kindergarten, it was just pounded into my head like you're going to college, you're going to have a career.
You know, you're smart and you have to do something with that. It was like the only option that was put before me. And so I followed that path like all the way through school. And by the time I got done with 12 years of regular school, I realized a couple of things. One is school is not where you go to learn things. Public school is not so great for smart people, for the most part.
And that I really didn't like, like another four years of school just sounded like hell to me. And I really just wanted to get married and have kids. That's kind of what I always wanted to do, much to the horror of my Marxist feminist mother, who did not like that. Oh, you were indoctrinated at an early age. Well, she tried, but I was the why kid. I was the kid that's just like, why? Why?
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Chapter 2: How does Rachel Wilson describe her journey into writing about feminism?
Yeah. Yeah. So I had divorced parents. Yeah, it was it was really rough because my mother like hated my dad. She could never tell you anything he did wrong.
Yeah.
It was just like he's an evil white patriarchal bad, bad Republican man. One of my earliest memories is them fighting over the Bush Dukakis election in 88 and like threatening to lock each other in the house so that the one couldn't cancel the other one's vote.
I know, fun. It was fun.
Was this before after Kitty Dukakis drank mouthwash? Or what did she drink? She drank something like that. I think so. Aftershave or mouthwash to try to get drunk? Yeah. The pressure of the election must have been so insane. And this is pre-social media, right? And this lady was already struggling with alcoholism. And I think she was hospitalized for drinking something that was not a drink.
Can we find out what that was? It was really crazy, right? Do you remember that? I just remember that whole election being pretty nuts as far as the Democrats versus Republicans. And this was when Democrats were more like how Republicans are right now. They weren't super insane. Dukakis tried to ride in a tank to make everybody think he was a pro-war tough guy. Remember that?
Yeah.
Yeah. And I remember read my lips, no new taxes and all that stuff. So like I had this going on like as a kid. So I think my brain was already thinking about this sort of stuff from the time I was little. Rubbing alcohol. Oh, that's crazy. Nail polish remover. Oh, my God. She drank nail polish remover. Holy shit. She couldn't just huff paint like normal person.
Very open about her struggles with alcohol and addiction to amphetamines to reduce the stigma surrounding these issues, later detailing these experiences in her books. Huh. Okay. Yeah. So my parents were like ready to kill each other over that. And so they divorced right right after that they divorced.
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Chapter 3: What were the contrasting views of Rachel's parents regarding feminism?
Your daily mindset is conflict and existential crisis. That is exactly, that was the picture that was laid in front of me. I go to dad's house and he's like, he started a business after the divorce and he's like hustling. He's working 12 to 14 hour days. He's doing everything he can to make it work. He's not complaining. He's just like, this is what you got to do.
If you want to make it, if you want to do your own thing and prove that you're good at what you do, you have to compete. You have to get out there. You have to work hard. Why complain about it? And then my mom's whole world was, she ended up being very bitter and resentful because it was like this view of, but I deserved this. That should have been me. I got robbed of it because whatever reason.
And often it was like if I was more attractive, you know, the men at work would have given me a raise if I looked like the other woman in the office or something, you know. So it was like this bitter, resentful. She was kind of like at war with the world. So seeing those two things, neither of my parents are perfect. Who is? Who has perfect parents? But it was kind of like.
I'd rather play over here where there's a purpose for me working hard and giving it my best shot and trying in life and figuring out what's important to me and then tailoring, you know, all my efforts toward that. And I just thought that having a family was so cool. And I wanted to have the family I didn't have.
Right.
I had this dream of like getting married, having kids, having an intact family and making it like a place where kids can grow up without all the screaming and yelling and chaos that I had and that a lot of kids have nowadays. So I didn't go to college. I had a full ride scholarship and I didn't go, which everybody thought was the end of the world. It was like, how could you do that?
Your life is over. You'll never be anything. And I was kind of like, we'll see, you know. It is very weird that we're convinced that the only way to get educated is by an official institution with all the information that's available now. I mean, even back then, like, that's the whole premise of Good Will Hunting. Like, you can get very smart from a public library. You really don't need...
It's just the books are available for everyone. The information is available for everyone if you chase it down. It's not like the only people that get any information are the ones who go to these colleges. It's one of the biggest lies that education – like we can just educate everyone. The problem is we're not educated enough.
And if everyone had enough access to education, everyone would be intelligent. Everyone would be thriving. It's like the internet has kind of proved this. I had a teacher. It's not an information problem, right? Right. I had a teacher in high school that said something. I don't know if this is his quote or he was quoting someone else.
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Chapter 4: What insights does Rachel Wilson provide about motherhood and societal expectations?
There it is. Women tell the truth about their abortions. On raising kids without sex roles. What year was this?
1973.
Wow. Yeah. On the housewife's moment of truth. This was the huge propaganda campaign to convince women that staying home and raising your own kids is actually horrific oppression and it's abuse and you're enslaved. You want to be at work working for your boss. You want to be paying those taxes. You want to – don't submit to your husband. Submit to your boss, though. Right. That's fine.
Or become the boss. Yeah, or become the boss, which – Again, we've had 50 years of trying to push women to be the boss. And guess what? They really don't want to. And this is what I always say. Some of them do, though. Some of them do. That's true. They're not a lot of fun.
Chapter 5: How does feminism impact women's happiness and family dynamics?
They're not. I would say there's always been like 5% of women who are genuine outliers. Who are really not cut out for motherhood, who can go out there and crush it, who are going to do something else. Historically, usually it was like maybe you would become a monastic, like a nun or something. Maybe you would run a boarding school or a tavern.
Like women have owned businesses and done other things in almost every culture. But you should be free to do that. The issue is like. Are we indoctrinating people into a very specific ideology in schools and universities? And is that why they're going to something that really maybe they're not that outlier and they wouldn't really be interested in it?
You know, I was talking the other day about this video that I saw on Instagram. A while back where there was this woman, she was talking about how when she was in college, she was dating this guy who was a Christian and he wanted a traditional family. And he's like, I'll take care of you and I'll raise our kids. And she goes, I didn't want that. I wanted to go out there in the world.
So I got my education. And I got the job and I'm doing the thing that I want to do and I don't want it. And she was crying. She was like, I don't want it. She was like, this is not what I want. I'm not happy. And I fucked up. Yeah. And it's just crazy. It's terrible.
Chapter 6: What statistics highlight the effects of family structure on children?
How many people silently feel like that? Yeah. Well, the truth is that since this book came out a few years ago, I've paid a pretty high personal cost for putting this information out there. And in the first chapter, I say, look, I'm just going to present to you the actual facts about the history and what really happened, because I think it's for you women to decide.
This is supposed to be for you. I want you guys to look at what really happened and the results of that. And the whole last chapter is like a ton of statistics about where are we now after 50 years of this being the super dominant thing. It's not great. It's not great. But I was like, I want women to have the ability to look at it truthfully for themselves and decide what they think.
And I have been slandered. I have been... The things that have been said about me, the lies and the gossip that have been spread like online, calling me everything under the sun, just wild, crazy rumors about my personal life that are not true. But that's going to happen to anybody that's in the public that says anything controversial. I'm kind of seen as somebody betraying the sisterhood, right?
Because we're so programmed that it's like the knee-jerk reaction from women oftentimes. But I get...
hundreds now emails dms letters in the mail even um from to our po box from women like one was a lady who was like i'm 60 years old i'm sitting here reading your book and it's covered with tears because i fell for this shit now i'm 60 years old i have no husband i have no kids i have a shitty job that i hate i'm gonna die alone and i can't go back and change any of it what do i do do you know who's upset about it too the lady who created sex in the city
Oh, yeah. Did you see that? She's a gem. Yes, there's like a little video about that, isn't there? Where she said that she regrets having ever made that. Yeah. Isn't that crazy? Because how many women saw that and like, I'm going to be that boss girl.
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Chapter 7: How does Rachel Wilson argue for a return to traditional family values?
Yeah. I'm going to be that. What was the one lady that fucked everybody? The hot blonde lady? Samantha? Aren't you a giant fan of Sex and the City? No, but that's the character's name. Character or actor? Both.
Samantha's.
Yeah. That lady, she was in all the like 80s. Kim Cattrall. That's it. Yes. Super hot. Yeah. Yeah. And it was like, I'm going to be like her. I'm going to be a Samantha. Yeah, I know. Yeah. Well, I mean, it was pushed on me really hard. And I was told, I was told you're like a loser. I'll never forget this. It was like maybe 12 years ago.
Somebody from the RNC that I was arguing with online about this. She told me, you should be ashamed of yourself. You You are not a proper conservative woman and you are not contributing to the movement by staying home with your kids. I said, really? How's that? She goes, what about the GDP?
I was like, the GDP?
She's like, if you were a real Republican, you'd be out there working and contributing to the GDP. And I was like, you're right. Raising five children and trying to make them the best human beings I can help them be is Who wants to do that? I should get out there and work for a corporation.
GDP was her argument? That's crazy.
I debate feminists all the time online. I'm pretty undefeated if anybody wants a piece. Well, here's the thing about liberals online. I was just talking to Andrew about this. You said that was incorrect, the take on her. The opposite is true. I've never regretted not having children. I feel compelled to have a career since I was a child. But who's judging? Not me. Read all about it in my new book.
But I thought, so why does it say here, Sex and the City writer Candace Bushnell, 60, admits she regrets choosing a career over having children as she is now truly alone. I don't know. And then there's a link. I would imagine she was selling a book and they're paying her some amount to get some headlines. This is the Daily Mail, though. The Daily Mail is a little sus, right? It's pretty.
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