Chapter 1: What is discussed at the start of this section?
The Joe Rogan Experience.
Showing by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day.
Good to see you, sir. Oh, so good to see you. What's happening? How you been? Doing great. Got big news. Big? I'll talk big. Very big. Before I start with a... Okay. Drops.
the book, Suicidal Empathy, the quote that we use all the time. Yeah, it is a good quote and it is a very accurate quote for the times. I like this where they're carrying the sign, free the wolves, the lamb is carrying.
Well, I wanted the cover to be as evocative as the concept, right? Dying to be kind. There you go. And there are just in the last two days, there have been so many new cases of suicidal empathy that I regret that I couldn't include them in the book. Like which ones?
So did you hear about the one where the guy who tried to assassinate President Trump, the judge then went and said, I am so sorry that you're not being treated nicely. You have a room without a window. This is just, it's mean.
Oh, see, I don't think that that's suicidal empathy at all.
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Chapter 2: What is 'Suicidal Empathy' and why is it significant?
I think that's signaling. I think that's signaling that he wishes that that man was successful and that he supports his endeavor. Fair enough.
The second example, actually today Dave Rubin shared it with me. It was the one where a felon of color who had just been released ended up pushing, right? And the previous person that he had been entangled with didn't want to, whatever, press charges because she didn't want another black man to be in prison.
Oh, boy. Yeah.
So I hope to get into the book in a second. But the other big news... is that this past year I've been a visiting scholar at Ole Miss, University of Mississippi. I had taken a two-year leave from my school in Montreal. Starting this summer, we are moving permanently to Oxford. So the Lebanese, Jews, Canadians are going down to Oxford, Mississippi, and we're very excited.
Wow.
Yeah, yeah.
So you're going to be there for two years? So how does that work?
Three years. Three years.
Do you get a green card or a visa?
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Chapter 3: How do personal experiences shape views on empathy?
Those are the parasites that need to go into your brain, altering your circuitry to suit their interests. Including ideas. And that's how I came up with the parasitic ideas and the parasitic mind.
But in order to fully tell the story, I then had to say, but a lot of the mechanisms by which people seem to be completely hijacked in terms of their ability to think critically is really coming from an affective place. And so how can I explain that? What I argue in the book, and then we can drill down to endless examples if you want, I'm not saying that empathy is a bad thing.
Because even though the book is just dropping, there's already been maybe 10 articles that have been hit pieces against the book, which of course people, it means people haven't read it yet, where they say, you know, here comes the dark Jew who is trying to promulgate the idea that empathy is a bad thing. He's a neocon right-wing guy. an Elon guy, a Donald Trump guy.
I'm not saying that empathy is bad. Empathy is actually a very important virtue to have in order for you and I to have a meaningful conversation. I need to put myself in your mind and vice versa. That's called cognitive empathy, right? Theory of mind is something that typically autistic children fail on very early in life. That's how you diagnose them as being autistic.
So there's nothing wrong with well-modulated empathy. The problem with empathy, like most things in life, is if there's too little or too much of it. Aristotle explained this to us thousands of years ago via his golden mean. If a soldier is not courageous enough, if he's cowardly, it's not good. If he's too courageous, he becomes a reckless martyr, that's not good.
There's a sweet spot in the middle. I argue empathy follows exactly that rule. Too little of it, you're a psychopath. Too much of it, if it's hyperactive, If it is invoked in the wrong situations toward the wrong targets, you end up with suicidal empathy.
Yeah, I don't even necessarily know if it's empathy at that point. It completely becomes illogical and ideological. you just subscribe to whatever the ideology says and you ignore the reality. Like this man that pushed that guy in front of the train. Like this is a violent criminal and he had been arrested numerous times, I think more than a dozen.
And it was very clear there's something very wrong with this person. He probably shouldn't be just running free, victimizing people. There was another one where someone pushed this old guy down a flight of stairs into the subway and killed him. Same situation, same kind of person, person that had been in and out of jail. Every one of these people starts off as a child.
Every one of these people starts off as a baby. And I can only imagine what kind of household they developed in. I can only imagine what kind of abuse they suffered. I can only imagine what happened to them. And that's horrible. But once they reach adulthood and they start victimizing other people, we've got to do something as a society. Exactly.
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Chapter 4: What is the relationship between empathy and cultural differences?
I think she's passed away now. She got the father involved. He reached out to Yasser Arafat, who was the head of the PLO back then. As I understand the story... Yasser Arafat said, well, I don't even know whether they're with one of our groups. Let me make some calls. But at the time, there was sort of a battle between Yasser Arafat and Abu Nidal.
And he said, if it's the Abu Nidal gang that took him, good luck. And it was the Abu Nidal group. But I'm guessing there was some money that was exchanged. My parents were freed. When my father returned, he had a... a temporary facial paralysis akin to when you have a really severe stroke and your face is completely disfigured and asymmetric. Guillain-Barre. Is that what it's called? Yeah.
But it got resolved. And so for about, I don't know how long it was, maybe a month or two, his face was completely asymmetric, probably due to the things that happened to him. And actually, I mean, some of the stuff I may have previously mentioned on this show, but here's a part that I'm almost certain I didn't mention.
At one point, the militia group was trying to get my parents to sign a confession letter that they are Israeli spies, which if you met my parents, you would know that that's not a very likely reality because it turns out that if they signed that, then they could legally execute them. And the guy who had started this whole thing was the owner of the building where my dad owned the store.
And if they could now get rid of them, the store would... So it wasn't even like a religious thing. It was for one of the... seven deadly sins of greed, at least as I understand it. And anyways, and so at one point, they had separated my parents and they were trying to put a lot of pressure on each of them to sign this thing.
And they go to my mother and say, you know, admit that you're a spy, whatever, Israeli agent. And she's like, are you crazy? I mean, just go ask my husband, you know? And they kind of mockingly say, oh, well, your husband has gone to join his God, meaning that they've already killed him. So then my mother is in her little cell and they're doing bad things to them.
And she hears my dad late at night in some other part of wherever they were keeping him. He had a very whooping kind of cough, like a cough as if like... Actually, I have a similar cough. I used to be asthmatic, so I have this very deep and loud cough. And so she was hearing that cough, but she wasn't sure if she's just hallucinating this in her thoughts or whether it was real.
Well, it turned out that they hadn't killed them, but they were just trying to lean in on her. And so that's the background that I come from.
Yeah, so you are very tuned in to what could possibly go wrong.
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Chapter 5: What historical context does Gad Saad provide about Thomas Jefferson and Islam?
By the Muslim – is that what you're talking about? Yes. Exactly. Yes, Thomas Jefferson. Exactly. Yes. So my point is – Tell everybody that story. I don't know it too well, but Thomas Jefferson, I think, was being belligerent to some incursions of Muslim piracy or something like that.
Yes, where they said that it was their right to do so because we were infidels.
Exactly right. I mean, Winston Churchill has some really savory quotes about what he thought about his interactions with Islam. And now he's British.
Chapter 6: How does Gad Saad explain the concept of Dar al-Harab and Dar al-Islam?
He's got nothing to do with the United States. This was well before the existence of the Zionist entity. It is part of the playbook to try to always blame some other agent other than our canons for why we're doing what we're doing, right?
I think that's why this is a good conversation, right? This is very nuanced. We're kind of laying out both sides of it.
That's why I love coming on the show whenever you have me on. If you crack, I don't mean you, but anybody who's listening to this, crack a book to say, okay, let me look at the number of military conquests where Islam was the offensive party, right? For example, people say, oh, the Crusades. Well, the Crusades were a retaliation to hundreds of years of Islamic aggression.
It didn't come out of nowhere, but there's always what I call the amnesia of causality. People always forget what was the original starting point. Under Islam, as I said, the primary canonical requirement of Islam is to render the entire world Islamic. Now, again, that doesn't mean that every Muslim believes this. That doesn't mean that every Muslim leader believes this.
But we're talking about what's in the canons of the religion. It is a violently expansionist ideology. I mean, nothing could be clearer. I've explained this previously on the show, but if you allow me, I'll explain it again. Islam has dual logic. Everything in Islam is broken down into two camps. There is Dar al-Harab and Dar al-Islam, the house of Islam and the house of war.
Any country that is not yet under Islamic dominion is classified as under the house of war. That's literally the words. Now, any country that has ever become under Islamic dominion, ever, and then Islam loses, canonically, it must revert back to Islam. So Andalusia, right? Andalusia in current Spain was at one point controlled by the Moors, right? Muslims.
Therefore, when now you hear a lot of these Islamic extremist guys saying, inshallah, we will get back al-Andalusia, it's because once it became ours, it must always belong to us. The same argument applies for Israel, even though Israel has thrived.
thousands of years of lineage of the Jews to that land as the indigenous owners of that land, the fact that then Islam took over that region, that means it belongs to Muslims. Now, we may tolerate the Jews to live there, but there can't be a Jewish state there canonically in the religion. OK, so those are those are just facts. You could study the history of Islam to count.
OK, there are currently 57. Well, if you include the Palestinian territories in the Organization of Islamic Cooperation, the OIC, there are 56 or 57 countries that are part of that block that are Islamic. Each of those countries, once upon a time, started with 0% Islam, right? I mean, it wasn't magical. So Indonesia was not Islamic once, right? Libya was not, right?
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Chapter 7: What are the implications of demographic changes discussed by Gad Saad?
Lebanon, within my lifetime, I was born in a Christian majority country. Today, within my lifetime and yours, it has completely flipped to Muslim majority. So wherever Islam goes, sometimes it might take five years to flip it. Sometimes it might take 500 years. But as the Taliban explained to us, the American soldiers have the watches we have all the time in the world. So it's a long project.
So when Islam comes into the United States, it's not as though suddenly the United States of America is going to become under Sharia law tomorrow morning. But if you have the imagination to extrapolate in two, three hundred years, if you were to repeat that,
Dearborn and Patterson, New Jersey and Minneapolis into 20 more cities, 50 more cities, 100 more cities, would you be living in the same United States? Right. And if not, is that a good thing or a bad thing?
Well, that's what people are. Some people are very fearful of what's going on in New York City with Mamdani. Yes, sir. I think it's a Trojan horse. And that under the guise of progressivism and democratic socialism, that you're going to open up the door and eventually you're going to have a call to prayer in the middle of Times Square every day.
Exactly. Well, listen, I'm wearing right now a Star of David.
Be careful.
Exactly. As soon as I'm in New York and I go to one of those – I mean, I don't as much anymore because my stomach's a bit more sensitive as I get older. But let's say one of those street vendors, I right away put away my Star of David because I'd love to have my shawarma without spit in it. The fact that I now even think of that and that that's a reflex that I have today is...
That's not a reflex I had 15 years ago. What changed? Well, what changed are the demographic realities that causes that there's a greater number of people that are triggered by the Star of David. Demography is indeed destiny. So you and I could fully agree that most Muslims are perfectly lovely.
i'm the first one to say this because i come from that culture no muslim has ever killed me no muslim has ever raped me but i do know that i've spoken to many muslims before before i was known and they knew who i was who say things about the jews that would make hitler and himmler go look guys we also hate the jews but i think this is too much jew hatred even by our standards
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Chapter 8: How does Gad Saad relate personal experiences to broader societal issues?
I'll just give you a couple of examples. In Sharm el-Sheikh, which is a Red Sea resort area in Egypt, and Jamie is welcome to fact check me if he wants. And I think in 2010, there was a spat of shark attacks on tourists in Sharm el-Sheikh. Do you remember after the investigation by the Egyptian authorities what they concluded? No. Want to take a guess?
No.
It was that there is very, very clear evidence that those sharks were Zionist trained because- What? Yes, sir. Because the way that you can harm the Egyptian economy, certainly in that region- is to render the tourism activity lesser if you have many attacks.
And so I'm not saying every Egyptian thought this, but this was coming from the authorities saying that there's really very clear evidence that those sharks were Jewish assholes.
Hold on a second. Wasn't there some evidence that there was illegal dumping of carcasses, of animal carcasses offshore?
As specific to that incident?
Yeah, I think that had something to do with the shark activity. It's really conspiracy theory. The attack sparked conspiracy theories of possible Israeli involvement. Egyptian television broadcast claims from South Sinai government, Mohammed, Abdul, Fadil, Shosha, that Israeli divers captured a shark with a GPS unit planted on its back, allegedly by Mossad.
Describing the theory as sad, Professor Mohamed Hanafi of Suez Canal University pointed out that GPS devices are used by marine biologists to track sharks, not control them remotely. Okay, but wasn't there something to do... Yeah, that's what the last sentence speaks to what you said.
Yeah, ultimately thought the dumping of sheep carcasses, there it is, during the Islamic festival of... How do you say that? How do you say the festival? Oh, Eid al-Adha. on 16 November was most likely explanation. That makes sense. That's why there was so much shark activity.
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