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Chapter 1: What is discussed at the start of this section?
the joe rogan experience train by day joe rogan podcast by night all day What's happening?
How are you? Good. Been really good. Just got into Austin last night.
I watched these videos of you describing this intravenous DMT experience. And the first thing I said is I need to talk to this guy about that. Like, that seems like one of the most insane descriptions of anything that anybody's ever experienced that I've ever seen online. Yeah. So tell me about this experience.
So it's... And this guy makes it. And they put it into a pump. And it's like an anesthesia pump that you'd have in like an operating room. And essentially they can adjust your like milliliters per hour dose like they would use for anesthesia. And like they launch you off. You're laying – the space is beautiful. They hold the space really well. And they can – What do you mean by that?
They hold the space really well?
It's a beautiful space. It's this amazing place where you lay down in the middle of the room. It's like on a really soft pillow thing. And great music on. And it's very calm. And these people are just unbelievably calm and good human beings to take you through the experience. And the cool thing about this pump is that you can adjust your altitude.
So like you could be in the middle of this and say, I need to go up more. I want to come down. If you need to take a pee break, they'll like pull you down. You kind of go onto the runway and then you go pee and you come back and you launch right back up as high as you want to go, as fast as you want to go. So it's five and a half hours.
And I did one pee break, but it's DMT, like the highest you can feel on DMT, like the most you can see on DMT, but it's five and a half hours of that. And the next time I go back, we're going to mix Alzheimer's drugs with this.
Why? Why?
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Chapter 2: What is the intravenous DMT experience like?
It seems like we're protected from bringing it back.
It does. It does. Like a dream. Yeah. There's real similar comparisons to the dream state.
Yeah.
The dream state is very strange. I've had, like, profound dreams before. or really bizarre dreams. And when I wake up, they're so crystal clear. And I go to take a pee, I have a cup of coffee, I can't remember them anymore. I barely can grip them. They just slide through your fingers. It's like there is a protective layer there.
It seems like it has to be because if there's anything that you experienced in the regular conscious state that was that profound, you would remember it forever. Yeah. Just think of a great thing. Just UFC fight this weekend. I remember everything. Oh, my God. It's so like drilled into my brain. And that is like nothing compared to a DMT experience.
Yeah. And it's it just seems like I've never met someone who's done DMT that would just. Oh, yeah. It's a psychedelic. It's a hallucination. I've never met anybody that's actually done it. And then we'll we'll just go back and say I hallucinated something.
There's a few people that say that. I've actually – I've read this one piece by this guy. I forget his discipline. I forget – but a serious academic and his position after I think he did like 100 DMT trips. And his position was that this is all being concocted by your visual cortex and your brain and your imagination. That was his position.
I mean, why wouldn't you go to Walmart on a DMT trip then or Target?
I don't think that's what – I just think – because it's very disorienting and you really should sit still. But I think that there's contrarians out there.
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Chapter 3: How does DMT impact memory retrieval?
And then after this journey, I told Michelle about this. And she's like, that's what I asked them to do. I asked them to fix your heart and your brain. Because I have a heart thing going on and I have a brain disease, which is why I was doing this in the first place. And that was the first thing that happened on the journey. I'm not saying there's causation.
Did you get looked at afterwards to see if they did anything? No. I haven't because they have to do a PET scan and it's so much radiation. It's so much radiation I can't even hug or sleep with my wife or our two-year-old for like 48 hours. It's a ton of radiation. Yeah, fuck that. What is the condition that you have? In the brain, I have mesial temporal sclerosis.
Yeah, we talked about this the last time you were here.
Yeah, and I had a seizure like the night before. This is the thing that you said that methylene blue was really helping you with. You know how many people have ripped that out of our show and like made commercials for their company and stuff out of it?
Oh, I'm used to that. There's so many ads for me selling everything. Yeah. From coffee makers to hard-on pills.
And if I don't take methylene blue for a couple of days, I'll go back into seizure territory pretty quickly. Yeah. But I will say just to go back to this dream thing you were talking about, the way that I like get people to help like understand this, like if you're in it, I'll walk you through this really quick. Let's say you're in a dream right now and I'm just here in your dream.
We're chilling out. hanging out and let's say you don't know it's a dream yet and I look over and I say like what is that UFO spaceship over there how far is that from your face right now and you look over at that flying saucer thing you'd be like oh it's like eight feet or something like that
But then if you know it's a dream and I ask you how far is it, you're still going to say, oh, it's eight feet. And then I ask, what is it made out of? You're going to say, oh, it's aluminum or whatever that thing's made out of. But there's no aluminum in your brain, right? And then I ask you again, what is it made out of? And eventually you'll get to a place where you say it's made out of me.
It's made out of consciousness. Then I say, what is the distance made out of? That entire eight feet of distance is also made out of your consciousness. And then I say, well, why did you have to manufacture eyeballs in your dream to see out of? And then what are the photons? Like you're seeing colors and all this stuff in your dream. There's no photons bouncing off of stuff in your dream.
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Chapter 4: What role do psychedelics play in therapy?
Yeah.
And if you just look at like one little science-y thing like that's weird, like quantum entanglement, and then somebody says we can't explain how this is like faster than light or anything. Well, we can explain it if we go to a dream and then say the distance doesn't exist. Right. The distance isn't real. Right. So I think that's – I want to know about the UFC fight at the White House. Yeah.
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I was really concerned that these guys are going to have to fight in the heat. But that was not an issue at all. It seemed like it was in the 70s. And it was the storm like miraculously just passed us. There was all these weather warnings at one point in time. The fight was supposed to start at 8 p.m., and at one point in time, one of the weather experts wanted us to start at 10.30. Yeah.
At night. 10.30 at night, which would have been a disaster. 10.30 at night would have been a disaster because it's a six-hour show. Yeah. Or close to it, whatever it is. I'd say 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 1. I guess it was five hours. Yeah. Somehow or another, the storm just almost went around the White House. I mean, I don't know... Mysteriously. I don't know what that is.
I don't know if that's science or if that's consciousness. I don't know what steered the storm or if it's just random luck. It could have been all of the above. But all my fears of the weather getting in the way of the fights, they were null. It didn't mean anything. And then there was this long...
sort of ceremonial thing where they had jets fly over and they played music and all this different stuff. So by the time we got to the actual fights, dark out, perfect. The weather was perfect. So that wasn't an issue at all. And it was just... The magnitude of the event – I know people saw it on television and it looked insane. Yeah.
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Chapter 5: How can we reprocess traumatic memories for healing?
So the final layer is go back to that event when you got kicked in the nuts and everybody laughed at you in elementary school or whatever. And you can reprocess that memory in a very short amount of time as an adult with the perspective of an adult.
So meaning like, so if you had a traumatic event in high school where somebody beat you up in front of everybody and everybody mocked you and it just like destroyed your year and destroyed your confidence, you can go back and shift this person's experience.
Yeah, and instead of modify the memory, like, no, that never happened. The memory stays, the perspective changes. So now you show permanence over time. So that has downstream effects for all kinds of stuff later in life. So this is when a script got written of, I've got to be tough, I've got to be loud, or somebody's going to hurt me. You know what I mean?
Like one of these little childhood scripts. So you get the downstream effect. So you can go in there and you could probably edit memories.
Chapter 6: What role do psychedelics play in memory perspective shifts?
I've always been nervous to modify stuff that's way more than like a pixel or something insignificant. But the memory stays the same. The perspective is what changes. And you can show that it's got a demonstrable effect downstream of that. Their whole life can be different after that day. And it's just like a mushroom. That's exactly what psychedelics do.
There's this massive perspective shift on memory.
And so is this something that you're actively doing?
With clients, I'll do this on occasion. Is anybody else doing it? Maybe a few. There's probably a few people doing it.
And is there any times where you guys get together and discuss techniques and what's effective and what's not effective?
There should be. We don't.
Right, because it seems like this is kind of a big deal and it seems like someone could fuck it up. Like it has the potential for delusional perspective shifting.
Yeah. I mean you've got to be responsible about it. But nowadays I think that psychedelics can achieve a lot of that without having to go through some – like I need you to go back to the original event and like having me vocally take you back there using this archaic, stupid-ass language – that can't even describe a psychedelic experience with this language. Right.
This is what I was doing mostly before psychedelics. And you know how I got into psychedelics was the Spirit Molecule movie that you did the voiceover for it. And that was what kind of introduced me to the entire field of everything where I thought, wow, this just doesn't seem like a recreational drug. And that was the big shift was watching that documentary for me.
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Chapter 7: How can one identify and navigate psychological operations (psyops)?
Yeah. I've never heard of that. Acacia.
Yeah. Well, acacia tree, very rich in DMT, but phalaris grass, very rich in DMT.
Mimosa plant.
Yeah. And for people that don't know, the reason why – Well, DMT exists in probably thousands of different plants. But you can eat those plants and not experience DMT because of monoamine oxidase. So mono-MAO is what your gut makes to break this stuff down so it doesn't become psychoactive. But when you take an MAO inhibitor and the psychedelic, then you get ayahuasca. That's what ayahuasca is.
That's why it's an orally active version of DMT.
Yeah, which methylene blue is in MAOI. Oh, interesting. It's a pretty light form of it. But if you're on methylene blue and you do psychedelics, it's going to deepen. I can imagine.
A lot of people are very hesitant about methylene blue. They don't like the idea of it. They think it's very dangerous or potentially dangerous that we don't know enough about it.
We've been researching it since 1890-something. And it's in every emergency room. Is it really? Every emergency room. Have you ever heard of anybody having bad experiences with methylene blue or side effects? There are some contraindications. So people that are on a high-dose SSRIs. Oh, okay.
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Chapter 8: What are the implications of social media on public perception and authority?
And if you're taking an MAOI, you can't eat aged cheese and wine because of this chemical called tyrosine that's in there. Oh, aged cheese. Yeah. So something about the fungus? Yeah. The mold? Yeah, maybe. Red wine and aged cheese both have tyrosine, which when you mix tyrosine with an MAOI, it can cause a hypertensive crisis. Oh. So like a super blood pressure issue.
But I haven't heard anybody having a bad time with it, but you've got to stick to the right dose. Obviously, you've got to talk to a doctor about it.
Well, let's ask AI. Okay. Put that into AI. Put that into perplexity. See what is the negative consequences of taking methylene blue. Maybe there's something that we don't know. Huberman's a little bit hesitant about it. Yeah. And I've talked to other people that say it seems like for a certain metabolic condition, it's very beneficial.
But for people that have a normal metabolic, like your whole system is working fine and perfect, it might not just not be necessary but might cause harm. But they were very vague about what that harm would be.
I don't think it's for everybody. It may not be for everybody. It saves my life for sure, which, I mean, I could stop taking it today and I'll have a seizure within 48 hours. That's wild. Yeah.
You said you had a seizure last time after you visited here?
The night before I came on the show.
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Yeah, my toilets are actually stained. From pee? Yeah. Yeah, it does make your pee blue. Sweating, feeling hot or cold, muscle twitches, harmless, blue-green discoloration of urine, sometimes stool or skin, serious risk, serotonin syndrome when combined with antidepressants, just like you were just saying, or other serotonogenic drugs, SSRIs, SNRIs, MAOIs, some opioids, St. John's wort.
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