Jordan Peterson sits down with author, podcaster, and notorious troll, Michael Malice. They discuss the motivations behind deep and totalitarian evil, how the margins of society operate within the anarchist framework, and the effect of counterproductive moralizing on psychological and political behavior. Michael Malice is the author of “Dear Reader: The Unauthorized Autobiography of Kim Jong Il” and “The New Right: A Journey to the Fringe of American Politics, The White Pill,” and organizer of “The Anarchist Handbook.” He is also the subject of the graphic novel “Ego & Hubris,” written by the late Harvey Pekar of American Splendor fame. He is the host of the podcast, “YOUR WELCOME.” Malice has co-authored books with several prominent personalities, including “Made in America” (the New York Times best-selling autobiography of UFC Hall of Famer Matt Hughes), “Concierge Confidential” (one of NPR’s top 5 celebrity books of the year) and “Black Man, White House” (comedian D. L. Hughley’s satirical look at the Obama years, also a New York Times bestseller). He is also the founding editor of “Overheard in New York.” This episode was filmed on January 6th, 2024. | Links | For Michael Malice: On X https://x.com/michaelmalice?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor On Instagram https://www.instagram.com/michaelmalice/?hl=en On YouTube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC5tj5QCpJKIl-KIa4Gib5Xw “The White Pill: A Tale of Good and Evil” (book) https://a.co/d/7OwgieQ
Full Episode
Hello, everybody. I had the opportunity today...
to sit down and talk, play really with Michael Malice. And that's always fun. Michael's a, he's a genuine delight to have a conversation with. You never know what direction it's gonna go in. Many directions, all of which have a certain coherence. He's got a great sense of humor and irony and is extremely sharp and unpredictable. So that's ridiculously fun.
And he always has something useful to say. So what did we talk about today? Well, we talked about the terrible attractiveness of the kind of virtue signaling that other people make sacrifices for. Motivation for deep evil. Michael has studied totalitarian evil. He was curious about the more mundane forms of pathology.
the sorts of things that motivate not only pedophilia, but extreme sadistic pedophilia, let's say. So that always makes for a enjoyable conversation. We talked about Michael shifting views with regards to the marginal, let's say, as a creative anarchist by personality and political inclination.
Michael is prone to presume that the different against the same or the, what would you say, exceptional against the normal is admirable, but he's also come to recognize that the center can be dissolved in a manner that's cataclysmic, and the diverse and the creative can degenerate into the monstrous and dangerous. And so we talked about that technically, psychologically, sociologically.
We talked about Camille Pelliat, who's a hero of Michael's, the brilliant female literary critic, unpredictable and sparkling. And Michael's request to me that I broker an invitation, which I could do, I suppose, with some degree of success probability. And we surveyed the landscape closely.
Fundamentally, what we did was survey the landscape of counterproductive moralizing and analyzed its effect on psychological and political behavior. And it was great fun. So join us for that. I suppose you think this should be a national holiday. Well, kind of. Don't you? We took down Trudeau. That's the spirit of January 6th. Put her there, man. Right? Thank God.
You know, I watched his resignation speech today. Apparently, the wind blew it away just a couple of minutes before his actual speech, so he had to wing it. And you can tell. And you know what I really found fascinating about it was, and I think it's perfectly in keeping with his essential narcissism, is the first statements he made were about him.
He said something like, well, you all know I'm a leader, or I'm a fighter. You all know I'm a fighter, and I don't quit. It's like, well, this isn't about you. I can't believe that, I can't envision saying something like that about myself. Can you imagine going out in front of a national audience and saying, I'm a fighter?
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