560. When Does Masculinity Become Toxic? | David French
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What sparked the conversation about the “$20 Million Man Problem”?
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I reached out to you for the podcast because I read. An article you wrote in the New York Times recently entitled The Democrats Twenty Million Dollar Man Problem the Most Positive. Article That has been Published about me in
the New York Times. Yeah. I really do feel like a lot of the things that are ripping America apart will begin to ease if we can deal with this loneliness, this alienization, this lack of belonging. How we got here is quite the bloody miracle. People were celebrating the demise of men, or denying the demise of men, or beginning to characterize traditional masculinity is inherently toxic. What that told a lot of young men was not, well, you have a problem, and instead was telling these young men, you are the problem.
Mm-hmm. Hello everybody. So um a a small miracle occurred in at the end of May this year. Uh the New York Times wrote a piece that featured me that was positive or at least mostly positive and It was entitled The Democrats Twenty Million Dollar Man Problem. It was written by a journalist, David French, and David had written a couple of pieces about me. and some positive and some less so. And I thought it would be very interesting to talk to him about the Democrats' twenty million dollar man problem. Now we ranged much more widely than merely that, but That's the focus of the conversation. So join us for that. I felt that the Democrats. investment of twenty million dollars to solve their problem with men was money spent so absurdly badly that it was a kind of staggering miracle.
And I thought we sh we could have a conversation about all of that because you're obviously concerned about The демократ's man problem, but more deeply. You have the sense not to put words in your mouth that something is amiss on the Masculine front and you're also At odds and ends, let's say about Who men should turn to?
Right, right. Well, you know, let me just start off with the way that I started off that piece. And um it there's a very memorable moment for me and it was not the only time that something like this has occurred, because I've been writing and talking about the the challenges that men and it particularly young men are facing for a long time. I mean, I was sort of standing there jumping up and down, going, Young men are in trouble, young men are in crisis for a long time. And around 20, oh gosh, uh 16, 17, 18, I began to encounter a lot of young men who were saying that you had really impacted their lives for the better. Um, and I began with a vignette about a uh former Marine who was driving me somewhere and started talking about how you had really changed his life.
I believe the phrase he used was saved. Yeah. And I was really curious about that. And so I asked him how that happened. And he was talking about when he got out of the service, and this is something as a veteran that I have seen with a lot of soldiers, sailors, Marines, when you leave the service, one of the things that you lose is your sense of daily purpose. Especially if you've deployed and you've been downrange, you have an incredible sense of purpose, even though it's very, very stressful. It's very, very difficult. It's very, very And you come home and you leave the military and you begin to lack purpose, you lack direction, and you know where that takes people. It takes people into bad places.
And he talked about, um, this must have been right after your book, um, Twelve Rules came out, and he talked about reading that book and how just that very simple thing of the making of your bed and the adjustment of how he viewed the world and the intentional acts of service or kindness to other people really kind of was like a r a reboot for him.
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Chapters
8 chapters
1
What sparked the conversation about the “$20 Million Man Problem”?
0:00–8:18
2
How do French and Peterson define the line between healthy masculinity and toxic masculinity?
8:18–16:25
3
Why does the lack of fathers and male role models matter for today’s young men?
16:25–24:39
4
How are schools, medication, and the “coddling” of boys contributing to the crisis?
24:39–32:15
5
What historical examples (e.g., WWII, Normandy) illustrate virtuous masculinity?
32:15–40:50
6
Which concrete rites of passage and mentorship models can help restore purpose for young men?
40:50–50:10
7
How do political narratives on both sides amplify or diminish the problem?
50:10–57:24
8
What actionable steps do the hosts propose for reaching and uplifting struggling young men?
57:24–1:09:09