Ames Sheldon’s Second World War novels explore how war impacts family life long after the guns have stopped firing. Writing them realized a life long dream when her first book – fifteen years in the making – won the Benjamin Franklin award as the Best New Voice in Fiction. Hi there, I’m your host Jenny Wheeler and Ames talks about the challenge of balancing personal dreams and family life and why she loves the creative process. Six things you’ll learn from this Joys of Binge Reading episode: How Ames realized her life long dream Why ‘writing what you know’ worked for her The family operetta that sparked it all The challenge of work and family life balance The writers she admires most Her latest project Where to find Ames Sheldon: Website: amessheldon.com/ Facebook: @AmesSheldonAuthor Goodreads:https://www.goodreads.com/author/show/14651368.Ames_Sheldon What follows is a “near as” transcript of our conversation, not word for word but pretty close to it, with links to important mentions. Jenny: But now, here’s Ames. Hello there Ames, and welcome to the show, it’s great to have you with us. Ames Sheldon – Historic fiction author Ames: Thank you. I am thrilled to be able to talk with you. Jenny: It’s just a real pleasure. So tell us all. Was there a Once Upon a Time moment when you decided that fiction was writing was the thing that you had to do? And if so, was there a catalyst for it? Where it all began Ames: Yes, there was. It all started with the fact that I love to read. And when I was nine years old, I was reading Stuart Little by E.B. White. And I loved that book so much. I thought, I want to be a writer. So I proceeded to write a story, a short story, a long, short story, and I’ve continued writing stories and poems ever since I was nine. I wrote a couple of novels. Neither of them were published. I spent years trying to get one of them published, in and out. Out to publishers and editors and back with comments, rewritten and out again. I did that for quite a number of years. And then I stopped. Throughout my adult life, I’ve had jobs that involved writing but non-fiction writing. I was a newspaper reporter and academic writer, a grant writer for a university for the Minnesota Historical Society, for the Minneapolis Public Library. How non-fiction helped fiction Not all of the same time, but one after another. And I thought this was a way I could keep my writing tools sharp in terms of being able to express my thoughts. This work helped my fiction in that I got used to getting feedback, getting criticism, revising and revising and revising. Jenny: So that first novel that you’ve mentioned. Did that ever evolve into the ones that you later published or was it something completely different? Ames: It was something completely different. And actually, it is the book that it is, I hope, going to be my third published novel. I had discovered an developmental editor along the way with my current novels and I worked with her to rewrite it. And I am currently querying agents and publishers about that novel. And I would be happy to tell you more about that novel maybe at the end or now what ever you wish. A thrilling new voice in fiction Jenny: I think at the end. We will concentrate on the ones that we have been publishing so far. That will be your work in progress I think. So that very first one that you managed to get published – and wonderful that you stuck at it with such determination. It must have been thrilling that you won the Benjamin Franklin Award as the Best New Voice in Fiction for that first book, which was Eleanor’s Wars. And I must when I first saw that title, Eleanor’s Wars, automatically my mind jumped to the fact that this might have a connection with Eleanor Roosevelt, but in fact, it’s a different Eleanor altogether, isn’t it? Ames Sutton, Eleanor’s Wars. Ames: That’s correct. Yes, it is a different Eleanor. I lived on Eleanor Avenue when I was writing that book and I was looking for a name that would be appropriate for that era. And I came up with Eleanor Sutton. Following a WWII family Jenny: Yeah. Now it is it is obviously an appropriate name because it follows the story of an American family in World War II actually, the one that we’re going to be focusing on more today, Don’t Put The Books Away It’s almost a sequel, but the first one traces an American family in World War II and the things that happen to the people that stay at home as well as the ones who go to serve.What drew you to that story? Ames: Well, the answer is a bit complicated. My uncle went to boarding school during World War II. He was at Andover in Massachusetts. And when it came time for his fiftieth reunion from Andover, he wrote and performed an operetta of songs about his experiences at boarding school. A few years later, one day as I was walking on a trail in the north woods of Minnesota, wondering what my next novel was going to be about. The inspiration for Eleanor’s Wars descended on me in a flash. It occurred to me to write a novel that would bring my uncle’s boarding school songs to life. Boarding school days brought to life These songs really grabbed to. They still do. I have a tape and I listen to it over and over. They reveal so much about the trials and longings of an awkward, bright musical boy who doesn’t really fit in. He’s not an athlete. He’s not a scholar. He’s not a ladies man. So the first draft of Eleanor’s Wars took a character named Nat Sutton from boarding school through to World War II. Through his next 40 years. But then once I completed the first draft, I hired a professional editor to give me an assessment. And he said I’d done a very good job of writing a young adult novel that could be published as it was. But he knew that’s not what I had in mind. I thought I was writing a book for adults. He said the characters were too nice. There wasn’t enough tension. Not enough happened. Basically, he told me that my book was boring. I needed to challenge my characters with difficult situations that they would grapple with and learn from. So then I was left wondering, OK, how do I make this more interesting, more challenging? Shaping and developing the story I started thinking about the fact that his story, his experience occurred during World War Two and looking to increase the tension and so on. I decided to focus more on the war. I shifted the focus away from that and centered it on his mother, Eleanor Sutton. I made her an ambulance driver during the First World War, and I gave her such horrific experiences that she never wanted to think or talk about that war again. Her past is riddled with secrets. So war and secrets and making the reader wonder who’s going to learn which secret when, that helped to create a lot of tension. VE Day – celebration scene Jenny: And that’s interesting because Nat comes into Book Two – Don’t Put The Boats Away – very strongly. He’s one of the main characters in the second book, isn’t he? The uphill battle to get published Ames: Yes. And he’s also one of the main protagonists in the first. In Eleanor’s Wars, the two protagonists really are Nat and Eleanor. Whereas in Don’t Put The Boats Away, the protagonists are Harriet, Nat’s sister and Nat. Jenny: Yes. So did you publish independently at the end of that long process or did you find a traditional publisher? Ames: I did publish independently. I tried to find a traditional publisher for Eleanor’s Wars. I sent queries out to 90 agents. One responded and she recommended that I work with a developmental editor. She said there were things that she really liked about it, but that it needed some work. So I did work with a book doctor, as she called it, for a year rewriting the manuscript. And then then the agent said, OK. Now I have something I can sell. And she sent it around and sent it around the University of New England Press. The editor there wanted to acquire it, but then after months of back and forth, his board decided not to relaunch their fiction line. 15 years from conception to birth And then I learned that my agent specialized in cook books. At that point I started looking at small presses. I was sure there was an audience for this book. So I pressed on and finally found a local publisher here in the Twin Cities, Beavers Pond Press and worked with them to independently publish Eleanor’s works. Jenny: That’s fantastic. And then you went and won that award with it. Did that feel like some validation for those years and years of dedication and belief in the work? Ames: Absolutely. It took me 15 years from the time I had the inspiration about Eleanor’s Wars and what to write about. Between that and receiving the award, 15 years. So, yes, it was the culmination, really of decades of writing and dreaming and work and hoping. Jenny: It’s lovely because there’s probably people listening who are in that stage of having had a dream like that for years and possibly doing something about it, but not quite knowing where to go next. So it’s a lovely story to encourage others to pursue their dream, isn’t it? Ames: Yes, it is. Perseverance, I think, is the name of the game. One American family, two wars Jenny: So, Eleanor Sutton, as you’ve mentioned, is a nurse in World War I and she’s the mother of a son who volunteers in World War II as well. So we’re not going to give away any spoilers. But those two books together really do trace one American family from World War I right through to the end of the 20th century, don’t they? American nurses in World War I Ames: That’s right. Exactly. Eleanor’s experiences in World War I had a huge impact on her and her husband and her children. It changed all their lives and the repercussions lasted for their entire lives. Don’t Put The Boats Away ends in the early 1970s, so it does cover about twenty five years beyond World War II. Jenny: Yes. But you didn’t initially promote them as the series? When I picked up. Don’t Put The Boats Away, I don’t think I realized that it was part two of Eleanor’s Wars. Did you regard it as a sequel at the beginning, or did it shape up that way as you went along? The advantage of a writing group Ames: Actually, I always regarded it as the sequel. That very first draft of my novel, covered 40 years, when I was in a writer’s group. And the leader of the group at one point said, finally, you have more than one book here. Why don’t you finish the first book first? So Eleanor’s Wars, was the first book and then Don’t Put The Boats Away is the sequel. Absolutely. And the writing of the sequel went much faster, as you might imagine. I had a first draft. I had characters. I had settings. I’d already done a bunch of the research. I was in a very helpful writers group. So that that book only took me about three years. The reason it’s not promoted as a series is that I didn’t use the same publisher, so the covers don’t look the same. They don’t look related. And I didn’t really agree with the call on that. But I felt I’d signed on to work with this editor, so I went with it. I think when I reprint it, when we do a second printing, I’m hoping to put on the cover that it is a sequel, the sequel to Eleanor’s Wars. So that it’s obvious to people they are a series. I certainly communicate it in all of the publicity that I can. That’s been a little bit of a challenge. I definitely think of it as a series. The third book I’m thinking about is very different. A sequel to Eleanor’s Wars Jenny: In Don’t Put The Boats Away you tackle most of the “red button” issues of the mid 20th century, in women’s rights and sexual politics. You go into people like Betty Friedan and gay men who are very quietly thinking about “coming out.” Those sorts of themes are in the work for the characters of Eleanor’s children, Harriet and Nathan. Was it fun to do? I suppose some of that was personal experience in your own life growing up? Tackling “red button’ themes like the women’s movement Ames: That’s absolutely true. I like involving hot topics because to me it makes it more relevant and to have a historical novel that is ringing relevant current bells. To me, that’s a nice way of providing some perspective. In Eleanor’s Wars, the issues are war and refugees and bullying and homophobia. And then in Don’t Put The Boats Away, as you say, they are sexism, alcoholism, and PTSD. I’m hoping through addressing some of these issues to elicit compassion from my readers for people who suffer from some of these situations, from mistreatment or being misunderstood or being disrespected or being condescended to. Find work-family balance Jenny: It sounds to me, having read some of your bio on line that the character of Harriet, one of the key things for her is the balance of her personal dreams to have an independent life with the balance of family life. That’s something that you’ve probably addressed yourself very regularly through your life. Would that be right? Ames: Yes, that is definitely true. I was married to an alcoholic and that marriage ended when our daughter was four years old. So I was a single mother for 14 years and I had to earn a living and take care of our home, take care of her. So I had to stop writing for a number of years. Once she hit adolescence, I was able to get back to my fiction writing on a part time basis, but it wasn’t really until I retired that I have been able to give it my all. Jenny: Yes. You’ve also been involved in a monumental historical project about woman’s records. Is that right? How has this influenced the fictional work? Women’s history brought alive Ames: Yes, it had a lot to do with that. So in the 1970s at the University of Minnesota, I was involved in a project where we were tasked with identifying primary sources, having to do with women’s history. So letters and diaries and minutes of meetings and so on that could be found in research libraries, manuscript collections, historical societies, places like that, recording women’s history. At the time was a new concept. It was a new discipline. So it took it took a lot of doing to convince all of these repositories of historical records to go back into their collections and reconsider what they had there and to tell us about them. It was a very important project. It was a groundbreaking project. The past can have a huge impact on the present. Before that, documented history was a way to celebrate men, the accomplishments of men who were leaders in military, religious, political, economic fields. Finding heroines to inspire us The men who wrote history. Up until the 70s, they didn’t think to mention the roles that women or slaves or peasants or colonials or natives played in establishing the cultures in which they lived. And when women were left out of recorded history, the implication was that women had no history worth recording. Discovering women’s history As a result, women have been robbed of the heroines and role models that could help show them possible new paths for themselves. So writing stories about valiant, talented women is my way of inspiring women to be everything they can imagine. So this big historical academic project really inspired me to write fiction about women, to tell some of the untold stories of the lives of common women, of ordinary women who to me seem to be heroines. Women finding their voice in fiction Jenny: It’s so interesting because I at a very similar time, did a history degree, . And as I was coming to the second or third year of that degree and I realized that we were only really studying political and institutional history, as you say, that was made by and talked about men. And I thought if I was going to go on and do a master’s thesis, I would want to be looking at social history. I would want to look at completely different aspects of history. And at that time where I was living, it was really not even considered a serious Master’s topic to try and tackle issues like that. So I walked away from it. And it’s been very interesting to me to see in the last decade how women’s stories, historical stories have just blossomed in the fictional area. Women are finding their voice in fiction. So it’s interesting where we’ve come to over the last 50 years, in terms of where women are today. The popularity of WWII fiction Ames: I agree it’s very interesting and thank goodness for this. These changes. Jenny: Yeah. That’s right. Books about the Second World War in particular are enjoying quite a boom at the moment. And I wondered if you had any thoughts about why that might be? Ames: Well, yes, I have had thoughts about that, because I certainly was have been attracted to World War II books. I was born in 1948, so World War II still seems pretty recent. And it’s the last war where everyone in the Allied countries were working together to defeat evil. Everybody was on board with this war. It’s maybe the last war where that has been the case because more recent wars have been much more, well, complicated. I guess not so black and white. Speaking into the silence I think right after the Second World War, those who were involved, especially those who were really part of the action, who were fighting, who were the soldiers, the nurses, people like that, they didn’t want to talk or think about what happened. It was so traumatic. So for a long time, there was silence and not many books about the war. But once the decades have have gone on, as the last veterans are dying, I think family members ask questions. The last veterans start talking more about their experience. There’s a lot of curiosity about such a seminal time in our world history. Jenny: Was anyone on your family directly involved in the Second World War? The emotional impact of war Ames: Yes. Well, my father was in England. He had an administrative job because he could type. So he wasn’t in the midst of the fighting, but he was at an airfield. And so he saw colleagues, buddies that he’d gotten know go off in planes and not to come back. So he actually had some PTSD, even just from that experience. Ames: Yes. Turning to your wider career, you’ve had a very full and busy life as a working woman before you got into your full time writing. I wondered how that life experience impacted on your writing. Ames: Well, I think it has given me much more to write about. You know, they say write what you know. When I was twenty three, I started my first novel and I struggled. And finally, when I realized I didn’t have anything to say, anything I was just burning to say, I just screeched to a stop and let it go for several years. And it wasn’t until after that women’s history project that I started to find that I did have things I wanted to write about. Ames as a binge reader Jenny: Turning to Ames as a reader, because this is The Joys of Binge Reading, I suspect that you’ve been a lifelong reader. Who are the people that you like to binge read either in the past or right now? Jan Karon – Clifton Chronicles Ames: Well, recently I’ve been enjoying binge reading. Jeffrey Archer’s Clifton Chronicles. And Jan Karon, the Mitford series. It’s a really quite lovely cozy mystery series – Christian themed – about an Anglican priest a rector who at the age of 60 hasn’t been married. I would read the Maisie Dobbs series by Jacqueline Winspear and the Louise Penny mysteries. I would binge read those if I could except they are not all in print yet. So I try to pace myself and wait until the paperback version comes out. I mean, basically I’m a binge reader in that I am always reading. One thing I love about airplane trips is the opportunity to read for hours and hours at a time in a row. Helen Simonson is another one I enjoy. I really like her work. Favorites Ames is reading now Jenny: Tell me about Helen Simonson. I haven’t come across her. Ames: She’s British, and one of them is about World War One. Maybe they’re both about World War One. Major Pettigrew’s Last Stand, and The summer Before The War. They are both historical novels. They’re wonderful. I really like Margaret Drabble, too. I’ve loved her for years. Barbara Kingsolver is another American writer I like. And Ann Patchett is another author. I really, really enjoy. Jenny: Circling around, as we’re coming to the end of our time together. At this stage in your career, if you were to do that all over again. Is there anything you’d change? Ames: I don’t know that there is. I think I had to have the experiences that I had, to be able to write as I have, in the way I have. I’m just thrilled to be able to be at this point in my life where I get to write novels. Helen Simonson – The Summer Before the War The secret of her success Jenny: If they have one thing that you’ve done, perhaps more than any other that you would credit as the secret of your success. Ames: Well, I think one thing is the depth of the research of the historical research that I go into. I really want my reader to feel like they are in physically, personally, mentally inhabiting the period that I’m writing about. So I love to introduce a lot of historically accurate, relevant details. I love doing the research, too. But the other thing I think that for me as a writer, that is the most helpful thing I’ve discovered is that Ernest Hemingway said it very well, always stop for the day while you still know what will happen next. That way you don’t face a blank page then it is. Jenny: So tell me, what do you enjoy most about writing and the creative process? The joys of creativity Ames: I love making things. Cooking, gardening, painting, that sort of thing. But I guess what I really love about writing a novel is that it’s something like having a child. It’s a very long pregnancy. In my experience. But it’s like nurturing a child with love and then sending this beloved part of myself out into the world to share. In the hope that people will be entertained and informed, comforted, sustained. So that’s another way of saying why I write. Jenny: Yes. Oh, that’s great. That really is fantastic. So what is next for Ames, the writer? You mentioned this new book that you’re working on now. Tell us about that. What are your projects for the next twelve months? Ames: Well, I am working on Lemons in the Garden of Love. And it’s a novel about me. It’s a novel about a graduate student in women’s history at the University of Minnesota in 1977, who is looking for a topic for her dissertation for her Ph.D. On her way to the shotgun wedding of her sister, she goes to Smith College, where the Sophia Smith collection, a very rich collection of manuscripts having to do with women’s history. She stops there and she finds all sorts of material – letters and cartoons and drawings and diaries of a woman who turns out to be her great grand aunt, a woman she’s never heard of. Lemons in the Garden of Love And this woman founded the Birth Control League of Massachusetts in 1916. So this ends up being a novel about reproductive freedom and about the two waves of feminism in the United States in the 1910s and the 1970s. The story goes back and forth between the the perspective of the graduate student and the woman who founded the Birth Control League. But she appears in the form of diaries and historical documents. You don’t see her on the stage. You read her documents,. Jenny: But she is a true historical person, is she? Ames: She’s based on a true historical person. But I have fictionalized the details of her life, her number of children, her name, where she lives, that sort of thing. But all of the historical documents are true and accurate. Where to find Ames online Jenny: I can see how that feeds back very closely into your work in the 70s. Ames: Exactly. So this is my first novel that I hope to reconstitute and actually see published. Jenny: Fantastic. So are you still working with that same publisher now that you had for the last book? Ames: I don’t know. I might very well. There is a university press of Massachusetts that I’m going to submit Lemons In The Garden of Love to. They publish one piece of fiction, one novel a year. And the story mostly takes place in Massachusetts. I don’t know that they will select my book. If they don’t, then I will go with. She Writes Press again. They’ve been a very interesting and supportive publisher. Jenny: That’s fantastic. So, Ames, do you like to interact with your readers? And if so, where can they find you? Are you online or do you do book club events? A typical writing day Ames: I do do book clubs. I haven’t done any by Skype yet. I’ve gone to book clubs and spoken with readers. I have a Web site, www.amessheldon.com. I do some blogging there. I’m on Facebook, @AmesSheldonAuthor. I‘m not Tweeting or doing Instagram yet. I’m on Amazon and Goodreads. But the blogging and the communication back and forth are mostly through my Web site. Jenny: Yes. Oh, that’s great. And your next book will be out about 18 months from now? Ames: Yes the spring of 2021. Jenny: Tell us a little about your typical writing day. Do you have a particular discipline for the hours you write. Ames: I do. I tend to spend once I’ve had my coffee and whatever, I tend to spend from 9:00 in the morning to noon – that’s is my best writing time. I’m almost always at my desk during that time. Then after lunch is when I would do research and marketing and exercise and other things like that. I try not to stop and look things up while I’m writing. I try to just write for the first three hours of my working day. Every day? Well, every weekday. Talking with readers Jenny: Absolutely, if you stop to research something that’s it’s a real rabbit hole, isn’t it? Ames: That’s for sure. It’s fun, but it doesn’t get the writing done. Jenny: No, that’s right. And have you had good feedback from your readers? Do you find that you have made friends from your books? Ames: Yes. In fact, it’s been fun to actually reconnect with people that I haven’t seen for a long time, who find out about my books. And I’m meeting all sorts of new people, I go to scheduled readings. I go to book festivals and talk with people. So it’s definitely been expanding my world. And people really do seem to enjoy my novels. They are a good read. Both of them. Jenny: It’s been great talking today. It has been inspiring to hear your story. I’m sure that a lot of people will take comfort from it, All the best with your future work. Ames: Thank you so much. I appreciate it. It’s been lovely to talk with you, Jenny. If you like Ames, you might also enjoy Rennie Airth’s World War II mysteries.- A War Weary Gentleman Detective…. Thanks To Our Technical Support: The Joys of Binge Reading podcast is put together with wonderful technical help from Dan Cotton at DC Audio Services. Dan is an experienced sound and video engineer who’s ready and available to help you with your next project… Seek him out at [email protected] or Phone + 64 – 21979539. He’s fast, takes pride in getting it right, and lovely to work with. Our voice overs are done by Abe Raffills, and Abe’s another gem. He got 20 years of experience on both sides of the camera/microphone as a cameraman/director and also voice artist and television presenter. Abe’s vocal delivery is both light hearted and warm and he is super easy to work with no matter the job. You’ll find him at [email protected]

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