Cathy Ace jokes she followed the advice given to many beginner writers to “write what you know” and the result was her university lecturer sleuth Cait Morgan – a short, plus-sized Welsh-Canadian who’s a bit bossy.” Rather like Cathy herself! Hi there, I’m your host Jenny Wheeler and today Cathy talks about the personal loss that propelled her into writing fiction, why she loves puzzle mysteries and the one thing she would change if she was starting over. Six things you’ll learn from this Joys of Binge Reading episode: The jolt she needed to get writing All about her early and serendipitous success What she enjoys about being a Welsh Canadian The new domestic suspense that’s getting her excited The writers she most admires And what she’d change if she were doing it all over again Where to find Cathy Ace: Website: http://cathyace.com/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/cathy.ace.author Twitter @AceCathy What follows is a “near as” transcript of our conversation, not word for word but pretty close to it, with links to important mentions. Jenny: But now, here’s Cathy. . Hello there Cathy and welcome to the show, it’s great to have you with us. Cathy: Thank you very much for inviting me along Jenny, it’s a delight to be here. Cathy Ace – mystery author Jenny: Beginning at the beginning . . . .Was there a “Once Upon A Time” moment when you realised you had to write fiction or your life would somehow be incomplete? Was there a catalyst? Cathy: You know, that’s a really interesting question Jenny. There was a point, and there was a catalyst. Unfortunately, it was the death of my father that was the catalyst. I think like so many people, the death of a parent suddenly makes us realise we’re mortal. And if we’re going to do something we feel passionate about, we should probably get off our backsides and do it. I had written one short story back in the 1980’s and having had that published, and then having that recorded for BBC Radio – my parents and my family almost exploded with pride when it broadcast. The death of my father shortly thereafter did spur me on to say to myself, “if you’re going to write crime fiction, get on with it”. And so I did! Jenny: Yes, and it’s a pretty remarkable success with that very first short story too, and the fact that it got such prominence- that must have been very encouraging for starters! Cathy: It was. To enter a competition with a short story, and to then have it published; it was fantastic. It then appeared on the GCSE English Language papers for British school students, which is what British school students do at 16 years old. It was just unbelievable. That was back in the 80’s and the 90’s, and it wasn’t until 2007 that that it was picked up and broadcast on BBC Radio. Despite that large gap, during which I ran a business, that fictional thread was quite the magical thread I think. Jenny: You’ve now got two successful mystery series running . . . Cait Morgan, the academic with a photographic memory and a vulnerable past, and the WISE series – four women solving crimes from the office base of a Welsh stately home. Cait is an amateur sleuth and the WISE women are professional investigators. Can you talk a little about how these two different series originated. . A WISE agency mystery from Cathy Ace Cathy: What I wanted to do with these two different sets of characters was to go on the basis on what I know, and what I think most avid readers of crime fiction know. Agatha Christie, she’s my favourite author, and she has Miss Marple, the cosy sleuth, and Hercule Poirot, the intensely intelligent private investigator. I sort of reversed those roles, in that my private investigators are much more cosy, albeit professional- and my cosy sleuth is much more brilliant. She’s an academic, because at the time I wrote my first Cait Morgan mystery, I myself was teaching at a university and being a Welsh- Canadian and her being a Welsh- Canadian, not to mention the surroundings – they were all very close to me. But I did realise that while I loved the shape of a sleuthing book, where it’s a close, small circle of a suspect and everybody could have done it, nobody could have done it, everybody wanted to do it; nobody wanted to do it! I also love the shape of a private investigator novel, where you follow clues and sometimes sort out mini cases on the way to cracking the big case. And that’s the difference between the shape of the two books. Cait is a typical traditional sleuthing story, and the private investigators do deal with several little cases on the way to the final denouement of the book. Jenny: Sure. Now, just remind me what WISE stands for? Cathy: Welsh, Irish, Scottish, English. One private investigator is Welsh, one is Irish, one is Scottish and one is English. Being Welsh and a rugby fan, when there were just the four home nations playing rugby, it was just WISE. Then of course France and Italy joined in- and probably best we don’t talk more about rugby than that! Jenny: Before you got into these two series you did Murder Month by Month and Murder Season by Season –– one for each month or season of the year. Where do these fit in – did they serve as a kind of apprenticeship? Murder Knows No Season by Cathy Ace Cathy: That first short story that was broadcast on BBC Radio began on January 1st – and opened with the line that today is the first day of the year I kill George. And it’s a diary of a woman planning to kill her husband. So when I realised that I wanted to write more crime fiction, I thought “well hang on a minute, I’ve quite obviously got a story here that’s a January story. What I could do is take each month of the calendar and work out how a story might revolve somehow around each different month of the calendar. Be that an occasion that occurs during the months, or the nature of the weather at the time of the month or something like that. So that’s what I did. I wrote twelve short (some are short and some not so short) stories, and I self published that as Murder Month by Month. I so enjoyed doing that, and I then pushed myself to write four novellas, which I’m sure will come as no surprise- they were published under the name Murder Season by Season. Again, with each novella revolving around one season of the year. That allowed me to create recurring characters within the collection of short stories, who I then pulled out and gave a novella each. So Cait Morgan was in the first collection of short stories, and in the collection of novella. The WISE Woman met in the first collection of short stories and developed their business relationship in the collection of novellas, and there’s another recurring character- Detective Inspector Evan Glover, who works for the Northern police service in South Wales. Jenny: Well that’s fantastic, because you really set up a training scheme for yourself didn’t you? It’s almost like practising over and over how to begin, plot and end a story. Cathy: It is true, that really is what I had in mind. I mean, I was coming to this point after having a long career in other things. When you’ve done something for five or ten years, you do realise that an apprenticeship is a critical part of coming to a point where you can do anything efficiently. I thought working on short stories, and then pushing myself to novellas would be a good way to work up those writing skills if they existed. Jenny: Well you’ve certainly approached it in a very scientific way, and it’s certainly paid off. So you self published those earlier ones, but with the later books you found traditional publishers- that was obviously quite deliberate. You didn’t fancy the idea of self publishing the whole lot? Cathy: The original purpose was to find myself an agent, and then a publisher. I think, as with most starting out writers, you think well I’ll write something and I’ll approach an agent, and I’ll be off and I’ll have a million dollar best seller immediately. Unfortunately, being in Canada- what I quickly discovered was that being a Welsh woman in Canada, writing stories settled around the world didn’t make me appeal very much to any market. In Canada we have a dearth of publishers and agencies, and I’m sure that in you’re area it’s much the same. So targeting a publisher was almost easier then targeting an agent. So what I did is I took a copy of each of those self published books, wrapped them up in red ribbon, and I crafted a ransom note. I cut letters out of newspapers and made a ransom note, and sent them off to a publisher on Vancouver Island with the ransom one begging them to release the characters. Cait Morgan Book #1 from Cathy Ace They came back to me and invited me to submit a novel length manuscript about the Cait Morgan character. Them being a Canadian publisher and her being a Canadian based character; that was the character that they went for. So I was very fortunate that the first publisher I sent the books to fit. I sent them my manuscript and known behold that was the first Cait Morgan mystery- The Corpse of the Silver Tongue. Jenny: Cait “stumbles over bodies as she travels the world” – and each story is set in a different city or country – Is part of the fun for you travelling to research each new book? Cathy: I wish I could say that I get to run off and jet set to various countries to complete my research, but unfortunately I don’t! I can’t run to that now; my lifestyle has changed significantly. But they’re all set in places where I’ve either lived or worked. Up until I moved to Canada, I was a very protective sort of person- I lived and worked in many places. Jenny: She is a Welsh Canadian and so are you – and you do have other similarities. You say you followed the advice to ‘write what you know’, so a short, plus-sized Welsh woman, who’s quite bossy, fits the bill!” How is Cait like you, and how are you different? Cathy: Well we are the same physically, yes. Although I will admit just between you and me, that when I started writing these books, Cait was bouncing around at 180 pounds and I just wish I was these days! Nevertheless, moving on… Cait has some terribly bad habits and an eidetic memory. Now I will admit that I possess some of her bad habits, but unfortunately I don’t possess the eidetic memory- that would have come in handy when I was at University! But she is curious, she is bossy, she is a single woman in her forties. I myself didn’t marry until I was 44, so certainly I do understand where she’s coming from. And yes, like Cait I do, in spite of the fashion police have a tendency to wear horizontal stripes, so we have that common! She loves her food and drink, she knows she’s overindulging, she knows what she’s doing is bad for her and she knows exactly how to stop because she’s intelligent enough to do it; she just chooses not to. She’s quite similar to me in many respects. Her history and some of her specific abilities are not mine, and I’ve also chosen to not give her some of mine. I think we’re fair on that basis. Jenny: You moved to Canada in 2000 after a very successful career in Europe as a marketer and academic trainer. . . what gave you the motivation to make the move? Cathy: Well I was imported like a parcel. The University of British Columbia were using one of my texts and when they were looking for a guest speaker on their NBA course, I got the job! They invited me over to teach the marketing part of their NBA course, so that’s why I moved to Vancouver. I’d sold my company in the UK in 1999, so I was footloose and fancy free – just about to move to the South of France. Then this came up and I thought, I’ll give it a go! It’s a chance to give back somewhat and I’m still here now! Jenny: You’re now settled on a rural property in BC where you garden and enjoy two chocolate Labs. Is this your personal version of heaven? Cathy: Do you know, it is. But coming from Swansea in South Wales, I could never have imagined this would be my heaven, because I couldn’t have imagined this was a lifestyle that existed. As you say, large gardens- my mother calls them “The Grounds”, which is quite sweet because she thinks of it likes a public park! I’ll go to the window and I still can’t believe these are our trees we have to maintain. Five acres of land is a good whack of garden to maintain. However much the labradors want to help, they might be green pawed but they’re not very good diggers I’m afraid! Jenny: You categorise your work overall as “Light traditional mysteries with no gore or sex.” Very much like the classical mystery in fact. What was it about mysteries that fascinated you? Cathy: I think in very general terms, I am drawn to puzzles – I do like to find solutions to things. I am quite goal oriented, and I do have quite a linear thought process. Which for me, that following the clues with the sleuth and digging up the red herrings and finally working out with the detective who has done what, to whom and where, has always fascinated me. But largely I think I have to go on and blame my mother. I blame her for most things so I suppose I think she should get credit or blame. She’s a huge Agatha Christie fan, and I did literally go from reading Nancy Drew mysteries to Agatha Christie mysteries, and I think I found my home and my passion for puzzle plots was cemented at a very early age. So I think with that background, I had very little choice but if I was going to write fiction, it would be crime fiction- and that shape of crime fiction. I do see that there’s crime fiction where there’s a role for what people might call “strong language”, or “grit” or realistic interpretations of adult life. I do see all of that. I choose to read that, and in fact I’m tending towards writing a little more towards that. You don’t have to have strong language all the time, just when appropriate. In more general terms (moving away from specific book focus) Jenny: Is there one thing you’ve done in your writing career more than any other that’s been the secret to your success? Cathy: That’s a really difficult question to answer because Im not at all sure of what success means in terms of a writing career. I mean there are obvious things- a New York Times Bestseller, a movie made from your films and so on. But that happens to so few authors in their careers, and even their lifetimes. I don’t think you can use that for the desire for success that drives you. So I think when it comes to success in writing, how the author gauges success is going to be different in each writer. I’m still enjoying my writing, but the shift that I mention in my writing is reflecting a shift in my own desire to do a different type of writing. I’ve decided to follow that wherever it may lead, which to me will be successful because I’ll enjoy the writing. The sales figures are good and solid for both of the series in the marketplace which is good. To win a Canadian National Writing Award for ‘Best Light Mystery’ was something I never imagined would happen and I was thrilled to bits when it did. I’m still not quite sure how that happened, but I’m pleased that it did! So in terms of that sort of success, the external acknowledgement of success- I’m not sure which differentiates one book from another to win a prize, because it very much is in the eye of the judges. Canadian award winner – Cathy Ace Hopefully if you sell books, it means that you’re pleasing a lot of people, and they’re enjoying your stories which is my ultimate goal. But also, hard work. To be perfectly honest with you- to have written and published 12 novels within 5 years has been a lot of writing time, promotional time and editing time. Putting in the hours was my choice on the basis that if I was going to make a go at it, I was going to work the hardest that I could at it. I’m a bit of a 200% person I suppose. If I’m going to make an effort, it’s going to be my best effort. Ultimately therefore, a lot of hours, a lot of words written and hopefully I’m getting a bit better at it the more I do. Jenny: So does that mean you’ve written one of each series pretty well every year, and a little bit more of one of each series? Cathy: At the beginning, it was just one a year when the first one came out. You’ve got it bubbling away in you’re consciousness for however long it is, and then it pops out. Then the next year, one more book come out of Cait Morgan. The following year two Cait Morgans came out, and the following year two Cait Morgans and one Wise Women came out, and then the following year two Cait Morgans and two Wise Women’s came out, so it was kind of catching up on itself. Writing three novels in a year, was something I did for two consecutive years. I promised myself after the first year that I would never do that again, but I’d already signed the contracts! So the second time I did it, I really promised I would never do it again; it was incredibly stressful. Jenny: It sounds like you got more productive as you became more of a professional; you could write faster as well, is that what happened? Cathy: I’m not sure I was writing faster, I just found I was putting in additional hours. It was all based upon being terrified to say no to a contract, in case people didn’t ask again. Turning to Cathy as reader Jenny: The series is called “The Joys of Binge Reading” because I see it as providing inspiration for people who like to read series . . . .So – turning to your taste in fiction who do you “binge read” ? Cathy: In the early days, I was definitely a binge Nancy Drew and Agatha Christie reader. I think it’s all probably Enid Blyton’s fault because of the Secret Seven and the Famous Five; you sort of grow up expecting there to be another one in the series. The habit of binge reading was something I was quite familiar with at a tender age. Recently I’ve found that I haven’t done it as much. The reason I haven’t done it as much is since I’ve been writing the amount of time I would spend reading, my reading time has diminished significantly. Not because I can’t read another writer while I’m writing because I might end up copying them, but because I just don’t have the mental capacity to take on someone else’s imagined world while I’m grappling with my own imagined worlds. Taking on the multi sensory activity that reading is, is beyond me. However, when I’m holiday what I do find is that I stack up the books that I’m going to take and I recently have started binge reading Lee Child’s Jack Reacher books and Elly Griffith’s series of books. I love them both, and I can’t understand why other people or myself hadn’t heard of them earlier. Elly Griffiths is a favorite for Cathy Ace And do you have a current series or author – or more than one – you’d like to recommend to listeners. Circling back to the end Jenny: At this stage in your career, if you were doing it all again, what would you change – if anything? Cathy: What I would change is actually not much to do with the writing, but to do with the writer’s life. I would have gone to Crime Writer’s conventions before I was published. I would have set up networks with the crime writers and crime writer’s associations and started reading blogs, reviewers and crime writing review magazines before I was published. I was kind of dipping my toe in the water because it was of interest to me. I hadn’t applied myself in a professional manner prior to publishing. What I learnt too late is I knew that you only have a debut novel once; what I didn’t understand was the publication of the debut novel should take place after a year- after people know that you exist in the marketplace. Hearing about a book from a complete unknown doesn’t achieve what hearing about a book from someone you’ve come to know as a person means- two different things. I wish I could go back and do that over again. Jenny: You’re active in writer’s organisations and currently chair of the Crime Writers of Canada. What does that involve, and what do you enjoy about belonging to these networks? Cathy: I did join Crime Writers of Canada in January or February before my first book came out in March. Once I had a publication date, I was eligible as a published author. I also joined the Crime Writers Association in the UK, Mystery Writers of America and Sisters in Crime. For a person who doesn’t see themselves as a joiner- there was quite a lot of joining going on! I do find that working completely in isolation or with the odd bit of outreach to research sources as an author suits me down to the ground. But it is nice to connect with an author who is facing the same daily struggles as you are. You can learn so much from people who have trod on a path before you. I learned a lot to begin with – I became a regional representative for Crime Writers of Canada, then the Vice Chair and I am now the Chair. I will step down from that position in May, having done that for two years. I have learned an incredible amount during that period from fellow authors. What I’ve seen is being an important role is to set up paths towards learning for beginning authors. It’s very difficult when you’re a beginning author to get insights from people who aren’t mentors, but who have got life lessons and professional lessons that can be passed onto you. Jenny: What is next for Cathy the writer ? Projects under development? Cathy: I went back to Murder Month by Month, that first collection of short stories I wrote in 2007, and I thought- I wonder if writing about a million and a half words since then will allow me to do a better job with the stories that I crafted? And I’ve just self published Murder Keeps No Calendar, which is some of the stories from the original collection, plus one brand new story and a couple of other stories that I had published elsewhere. I rewrote and re edited them and I dumped a few but I’ll give those some attention in the future. Murder Keeps No Calendar – Cathy Ace It’s not very often in life you get a “do over” and I realised that with the world of publishing and the way it is these days, I had a chance for a “do over”. So I’ve taken it. So self publishing Murder Keeps No Calendar was step number one. I’m also going to re edit and rewrite the Murder Season by Season novellas, and they’re going to come out as Murder Knows No Season later this year. But what I’m working on right now is a piece of what I believe people would call a domestic suspense. It focuses on three generations of a family- a grandmother, a mother and a daughter all living in a woe be gone seafront cottage in Wales, and all who are connected with a gruesome death of a young boy in their location. The identification of the young corpse is not known initially, and they don’t know initially that they are connected with the death- or maybe they do! We’ll see. Jenny: Where can readers find you on line? Cathy: I have a website- cathyace.com. As we are doing this, I’m in the process of making up a brand new website! I blog every other week at Seven Criminal Minds, and I blog once a month at a lovely place called Killer Characters which is where we speak as our characters, which is a interesting take on blogging I think! A regular blog hangout Whereas the Seven Criminal Minds is much more like a panel, where five authors answer the same question each week on a rotating panel. I don’t have a personal blog and I don’t think I’ll head that way- I’d rather keep my other writing time for novels. Probably the website is the best place to find out what’s going on, and what events might be coming up. I am also Cathy Ace – Author on Facebook, and on Twitter I’m @ACEcathy Jenny: It was lovely talking to you, thanks Cathy. We’ll keep in touch. Cathy: I hope it was ok, thank you very much. Thanks To Our Technical Support: The Joys of Binge Reading podcast is put together with wonderful technical help from Dan Cotton at DC Audio Services. Dan is an experienced sound and video engineer who’s ready and available to help you with your next project… Seek him out at [email protected] or Phone + 64 – 21979539. He’s fast, takes pride in getting it right, and lovely to work with. Our voice overs are done by Abe Raffills, and Abe’s another gem. He got 20 years of experience on both sides of the camera/microphone as a cameraman/director and also voice artist and television presenter. Abe’s vocal delivery is both light hearted and warm and he is super easy to work with no matter the job. You’ll find him at [email protected]

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