Chanel Cleeton’s two richly imagined dual time stories of Cuban America are break through best sellers, with the first, Next Year in Havana, a Reese Witherspoon Book Club choice. But Chanel’s put in a full apprenticeship writing contemporary romance before she enjoyed “overnight success.” Hi there I’m your host Jenny Wheeler, and today Chanel talks about the family history behind her books and how a note on a CIA file inspired the plot for her most recent book, When We Left Cuba. Six things you’ll learn from this Joys of Binge Reading episode: Why Chanel switched from romance to historical fiction How ‘being a Reese Witherspoon choice’ worked for her How writing the book changed her appreciation of family Why she thinks ‘luck’ is an important factor in her career 2019 – a great year for new books How law school ‘drove’ her to writing Where to find Chanel Cleeton: Website: www.chanelcleeton.com Facebook: @AuthorChanelCleeton Twitter: @chanelcleeton Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/chanelcleeton/ What follows is a “near as” transcript of our conversation, not word for word but pretty close to it, with links to important mentions. Jenny: Hello there Chanel and welcome to the show it’s great to have you with us.J Chanel: [00:00:06] Thank you so much for having me. I’m thrilled to be here. Meeting author Chanel Cleeton Jenny: [00:00:10] I can see from reading the two Cuban books and looking online at some of your other work, that you might feel a little bit like one of those people who is now described as an “overnight success.” Because the Cuban books have really taken center stage. The first one of them Next Year in Havana became a Reese Witherspoon book club choice. But you’ve done a lot of writing before those books. So it’s one of those cases of “many years work” to become an “overnight success.” Is that right? Chanel Cleeton – author Chanel: [00:00:48] Yes. I had written about 10 contemporary romances before I published Next Year in Havana. So definitely I had been writing for a bit, but I still just feel very fortunate about how everyone’s embraced the books and really; just been so supportive. Jenny: [00:01:03] Yes. You’re a New York Times and a USA Today bestselling author. You’ve also got an impressive academic record. But if we went back to the beginning, was there a “Once Upon a Time” moment when you decided that you wanted to write fiction? And if so what was the catalyst for it? Chanel: [00:01:25] I think law school was really probably one of the driving factors in me deciding to write fiction. I will be honest. I didn’t really enjoy it very much and realized it wasn’t a good fit for me. It wasn’t what I wanted to do with my life. And I started thinking about the things that I was most passionate about and while I’d never really considered being a writer I’ve always been a really big reader. [00:01:46] I mean there’s not a time in my life that I can remember not having a book in my hands and I really just thought about how amazing it would be to have a career where I would get to work with books in any capacity. So I really just started taking it more seriously and I wrote a manuscript and was really fortunate that everything was able to come together. Jenny: [00:02:09] That’s fantastic. You’ve mentioned you’ve written 10 contemporary romances and I think they’re arranged in two sets of trilogies, aren’t they? There’s one called Wild Aces which is about men who fly airplanes. Then there’s Capital Confessions and International Schools. And also one romantic suspense novel. So what made you decide to switch to do dual timeline historic fiction? Romance to historical fiction Chanel Cleeton romance Chanel: [00:02:36] I was really at a crossroads in my career as you mentioned, you know. I’d written quite a few romances and I was really thinking as a reader about the different types of genres that I enjoyed and maybe wanting to do something different. [00:02:50] And then at the same time I was talking to my father. My family left Cuba in 1967 and I had grown up on all of their stories, but there was one story that I hadn’t heard. It was a story of the night before they left Havana, when everyone met in the backyard of my grandparents’ home in the middle of the night and they buried their valuables because they couldn’t take them with them when they left the country. They didn’t know when they would be able to return. [00:03:15] And my dad told me this story in the summer of 2016 and as soon as I heard it, as a writer, it just really stuck with me. The question of if you were forced to leave the only home you’d ever known, and you didn’t know when you would return, what would you save for the day that you could go back? [00:03:32] That question really is what sparked me writing Next Year in Havana. It was a perfect intersection of me being at a point in my career where I was interested in doing something different. I’d always loved historicals and loved reading Latin so wanting to write them was certainly kind of a natural transition for me. And then having this family story come to light at that exact moment, it was just really kind of serendipity for me to embark on this new path. Jenny: [00:03:58] Well yes. And the true story of something buried in the backyard actually is one of the hubs around which Next Year In Havana moves. Did your dad say exactly what they did bury there? Did you ask him? Chanel: [00:04:15] It was not as romantic as what’s in the book! But really just jewelry and financial documents and that sort of thing. So you know it was just one of those things – the idea of it, It was actually a really common practice. People would also bury things in the walls of their homes. A lot of people tried to smuggle things out of the country at different times. [00:04:37] We have quite a few family photos because one of my grandfather’s friends put them in film canisters and was able to get them out of the country that way, because they didn’t open the canisters at the airport. So it really was something that I think is very relatable to a lot of Cuban exiles and an experience that I wanted to capture. Jenny: [00:05:00] Yes. Next Year in Havana. That’s a lovely title it’s got a real ring to it and of course it reminds you of the famous phrase Next Year in Jerusalem. And I was wondering do Cuban exiles still have that longing to return to Havana? And has that phrase got particular significance for people like your family and others who were forced to leave? A “toast” to Havana Havana will always be Havana – Spectator Pic Chanel: [00:05:28] It does. I mean it’s typically a toast that people say, depending on where you’re from. Some people say ‘Next Year in Cuba.’ Some people say Next Year in Havana. But it is a toast: often at New Year’s that you’ll say. Just speaking for my family, I know my grandparents certainly held that longing to return throughout their lives. So I do think that is a sentiment that many people share who are separated from their homeland. Jenny: [00:05:55] Yes. Yes. And I’m a bit vague about where things stand as far as the Cuba travel ban and people like you are affected… Are you now freely able to travel back and forth, or is it still difficult? Chanel: [00:06:10] It’s still kind of unfurling. So there are certainly more opportunities than there were pre-2016 but there are certain categories of travel that you have to go under. And it gets a little more complicated if you have a relationship to Cuba. If you were born in Cuba then there there’s some extra red tape that you go through. [00:06:30] You know it’s certainly not as easy as going into some places. But there are a lot of cruises that are doing day trips and and it’s opening up a lot, but we’re definitely still waiting to see,going forward what that looks like for the future. Jenny: [00:06:44] Yes it’s it’s rather remarkable after all this time that that should still be the case really isn’t it? Chanel: [00:06:51] I mean it’s definitely yes, a unique situation. Our relationship with Cuba diplomatically and as well as its relation on the world stage is is unique in many ways. Jenny: [00:07:00] Yeah. Look Next Year in Havana for those who haven’t had the chance to read, tells the story of a granddaughter and her grandmother. In the book Marisol returns to Cuba with her grandmother Elise’s ashes. And when she gets there discovers a whole history that she didn’t know about. Then the second book which is just very recently published, When We Left Cuba, takes up the story of the Perez family a little bit further along in the 60s with the Bay of Pigs crisis. [00:07:34] It tells the story of Elise’s sister, the fiery Beatriz. I wondered did you have a chance to go to Cuba to research it? How much of it does relate to your own family history? The complexity of Cuban travel Chanel: [00:07:55] I actually didn’t get to go to Cuba. I mentioned earlier the story with my father and he told me that story in context of a trip that we were planning to go to Cuba with my grandmother has about 60 something people on her extended family. We usually do family reunions every few years and so when travel started to open up we looked at doing the trip as a family. [00:08:41] But in the course of planning the trip and paying deposits it really opened up a dialogue about how some of the older generations felt about going back. My grandfather in particular, who is 96, just felt really strongly. He was very angry about the US supporting the regime financially and going back there and I think he also had quite a bit of fear about the idea of us traveling there, given what he had experienced. [00:09:07] So my dad and I made the decision that out of respect for him it really wasn’t appropriate to go at this time. You know it’s a really complicated issue within the Cuban-American community. I have extended family that have gone back and I know many people do. And while I certainly respect that, I think every family grapples with it a little bit differently. And for us it just felt like the best thing was was to not go with the current situation as it is. Jenny: [00:09:36] And so this family that you’ve got there have you been able to maintain any links with them? Chanel: [00:09:43] It’s really our extended family. The vast majority of our family came over a different periods and I think most recently within the last few years some people came over on my grandfather’s side of the family so you know, it’s not a super close relationship just because it is a distant cousin sort of thing. But a lot of families certainly were separated by this and I know my grandmother when she was alive wrote friends and stayed in contact with people there. Jenny: [00:10:13] Yes. Does having a book become a Reese Witherspoon Book Club choice automatically mean it’s going to become a movie or a TV series? Chanel: [00:10:26] It doesn’t. It’s one of those tremendous honors and she does adapt quite a few books which is so wonderful. She’s really done a lot to to lift up books and spark a new love of reading but it depends. I was fortunate that we did option the book to another production company and they’ve been really enthusiastic about the project. It’s certainly a long road from option to seeing it on the screen. So right now I just have lots of fingers crossed and I would certainly love to see it come to life if that ends up coming to fruition. Jenny: [00:11:03] Fantastic. I think it would make a wonderful story because you have strong woman who love beautiful things. You spend a lot of time talking about fashion and accessories and jewelry. So there’s a beautiful picture that is painted in your mind as you read the story as well which would come over wonderfully in film. Strong women dressed beautifully “A flat-out stunner of a book” Next Year in Havana Chanel: [00:11:25] Oh thank you. I was drawn to a lot of the images of the photographs that we were able to bring over from my family’s time in Cuba. And I was really drawn to those memories that I and my grandmother would relate to me and the photos that she would show me. She had several sisters and they would wear these beautiful dresses and go to parties and it was very much the spirit of what I captured in the book. Jenny: [00:11:49] And that’s lovely. You’ve also mentioned that you realized when you started to research the book that perhaps some of the family stories you’d heard were a little bit framed by nostalgia on the part of your grandparents? That actually things were quite a lot grimmer than what they’d really been willing to talk about. Is that right? Chanel: [00:12:12] Yes. And I think you know that’s kind of a common experience that people have shared with me as I’ve written the book. I’ve had a lot of people reach out to me and say that they had similar experiences in their family. I think probably for the generation that lived through all of that some things were just too painful to talk about. So a lot was kept inside or kept privately and I think they really chose to remember the good times. Since I’ve written the book, I’ve certainly learned a lot more and its opened a new discussion in my family. I’ve had readers tell me it’s it’s been the same for them, where they’ve started to ask more questions about their family and what their experiences were. Jenny: [00:12:51] Do you feel as if it was the right time? I mean it seems to me that this book has been accepted and appreciated by a much more general readership than you might have expected perhaps five or eight years ago. It might have been more of a niche novel then. Now it’s really hit through to the mass market. You just wrote it at the right time? Chanel: [00:13:24] I think certainly relations starting to open up and that has spurred a new interest in Cuba and the ability for Americans now to travel there even in limited capacities has certainly renewed that interest. But I also hope we are seeing an enthusiasm from more diverse stories and looking at more underrepresented points in history. That’s something I’m very hopeful about and encouraged by. Buena Vista Social Club soundtrack Buena Vista Playlist on Spotify Jenny: [00:13:49] That is right. That’s quite an awareness. Just a little bit of a lighthearted side of it – you say that you use the playlist list of Buena Vista Social Club when you were writing Next Year in Havana. I wondered if there was any playlist that you used when you were writing. When We Left Cuba. Chanel: [00:14:10] I did. I do a playlist for all of my books and I actually put them up on Spotify so my readers can listen to what I was listening to when I worked on the books. I definitely listened to a lot of one of Buena Vista Social club. Chanel: [00:14:23] That’s kind of one of the hallmarks for me of my childhood. My grandparents lived with us and I would come home to the sound of them playing their records after school. And it definitely made me feel like I was in another world for some time so music is a huge part of my process. I really like to immerse myself as much as I can in the books and in the topics that I write about and I think it goes to engaging all of your senses when you’re doing that. Jenny: [00:14:50] Yes. Now turning to wider career. Could you tell us a little bit about your life before you became a full time writer? I think you studied a number of different university courses and you’ve lived in quite a few different places haven’t you? Chanel: [00:15:08] Yes I’ve been really fortunate to have some amazing opportunities. I studied abroad for several years for my undergrad and my masters in England. I lived in Asia and I spent a first few years of my life in the Dominican Republic. So I’ve been really fortunate to have those experiences and they’ve definitely been very formative to me. [00:15:29] And then I think as well having the political background has been really helpful with my books. My undergraduate degree is in international relations and my Master’s is in global politics and so being able to use some of that has been very beneficial when I’ve been doing research, particularly because these two books are so heavy in the politics of the times. Being able to have that background has really given me a richer experience working on these books. A politician very like JFK . . . JFK and Fidel Castro: Feature in When We Left Cuba. They never met. Jenny: [00:15:57] Yes and the second book When We Left Cuba, the central character Beatriz has a relationship with an American politician who brings to mind JFK quite strongly. Was that deliberate? [00:16:11] Yeah right. I definitely wanted to honor the spirit of the times and that generation of men who served in World War Two and rose to political dominance at that time, like JFK, largely off of their records in the war and their public service. Jenny: [00:16:31] Yes. When you were researching this aspect of the story did you discover new things that you didn’t know before? Chanel: [00:16:41] I delved much deeper into that world. I did not anticipate when I really first conceptualized the book having Beatrix be so involved in the espionage and having such a close relationship with the CIA. But as I was researching it I came across some of the CIA’s plots to assassinate Fidel Castro, one of them actually involved using one of his mistresses. And so it was one of those things that, as soon as I came across that piece of information, I found an opportunity to take a fictional character and put her in a historically accurate situation and give her her shot at history. [00:17:19] In historical fiction it’s wonderful when you can find those real life moments and then take a twist on them to fictionalize them a bit but still have them be authentic to the times and to how the characters would have behaved. Jenny: [00:17:34] It’s a fascinating little bit of information. So is there a quite a lot of the CIA material from those years which is now available for public scrutiny? Chanel: [00:17:45] Yes there is. That’s definitely helpful. It’s kind of a double edged sword. I will say it’s helpful but one of the things I think that’s really important when you’re writing historical fiction as well is that you don’t want your characters to have more information than they would have had at that time. [00:18:00] So you really have to parse through your research materials to be careful that you’re not giving your characters sensibilities that they would have in 2018. You know, with the benefit of hindsight and all the information that’s come out about that time period. So I’m trying to tunnel into what the characters on the ground would have known in that time and what they would have believed based on the knowledge that was available then. The secret of Chanel’s success Jenny: [00:18:23] Sure. Is there one thing that you’ve done in your writing career more than any other that was perhaps the secret of your success. Chanel: [00:18:37] You know I definitely think there is an element of luck. I tell everyone that. It’s unfortunate, because it’s one of those things you can’t really replicate or manufacture. It’s just an X factor with each book, that you hope happens. Definitely the Reese pick was a huge opportunity for me. I can’t point to one thing other than to say it was an incredible opportunity and it really has made such a difference in my writing career. I think having a passion for books is important to any writer. This is a career where certainly you have ups and downs and having that passion sustain you through the downs is incredibly important. [00:19:18] Also I think just working hard on being professional. Being someone that hopefully publishers and agents like to work with and having professional relationships with other authors that are beneficial and that grow you as a writer. Perhaps then just focusing on the craft and reading as much as possible and writing as much as possible. I really think that the more you hold your craft you know the better results you see at the end. Jenny: [00:19:45] Sure sure. And being the Reese Witterspoon Book Club Choice does that mean that you had a lot of approaches from real book clubs and do you do that sort of thing where you might speak to a book club via Skype who does that not that’s not part of it. [00:20:02] I might do that quite a bit. I have a lot of book clubs that kind of reach out to me and so depending on my scheduling availability I’ll Skype with them often and it’s been really fun because a lot of them do sort of themed nights when they have these book club nights so they’ll cook Cuban recipes. I have some recipes on my Web site that I suggest for book clubs where there wasn’t the music. And so it’s really fun to kind of see how they take their spin on the book and what they do to to celebrate it together Jenny: [00:20:38] Have you got a favorite way to relax and unwind? Are you a workaholic personality? Chanel: [00:20:47] I don’t know as I was ever a workaholic. I do think that this is a job where your work’s never really officially done. And since you don’t really have set work hours I do tend to work when I need to and sometimes that bleeds into the evening or weekends just depending on where I am on my schedule at that moment. I’m a really big reader. I read every night pretty much before I go to bed. And so that’s certainly something that I do to unwind and to turn my mind off and just read for pleasure. I also love to watch TV and movies and I think I get a lot from that storytelling as well just to see different formats. And it definitely goes into my writing as well. What Chanel loves to read True story of model turned photographer Lee Miller Jenny: [00:21:28] Sure. So that brings us very nicely to the part of the show where we like to talk about the binge reading aspect. It’s called The Joys of Binge Reading because we’ve noticed a much bigger increase in the people who binge read and the way that they also binge watch things like Netflix so tuning to you as the reader Chanel. Who do you like to read? And have you been in the past a binge reader? Chanel: [00:21:55] I definitely think I am. I tend to binge by genre really so I read pretty much every genre and I’ll sort of get in moods where you know I’ll just want to read mysteries. And so I’ll read you know 10 or 15 mysteries in a row and then I’ll say OK I want to switch it up and so I’ll read historical fiction. So really very much just mood dependent. For me some of my favorite books I’ve read recently one of them was A Place For Us by place for us by Fatima Farheen Mirza. [00:22:22] It’s this beautiful story about this American Muslim family. It was one of those books that once I started, I just couldn’t put it down. It was so beautifully crafted. Definitely a favorite read for this year if not probably one of my all time favorite books. It just really stuck with me. [00:22:42] I also loved an historical fiction The Age Of Light, by Whitney Scharer. [00:22:45] That just came out and that was a really beautiful book that I stayed up late reading. And also I just finished Katherine Arden’s fantasy series. I just finished the Winter of the Witch which was the third book in the Winternight trilogy. [00:22:59] And those books were all phenomenal as well. So I’ve I’ve been really fortunate that I’ve had a very good reading year and definitely one of those perfect escapes for me. A passion for history Jenny: [00:23:09] You mentioned historical fiction and that is a genre seems to be growing very much and this is funny quite a number of the authors that I’m reading or planning to interview at the moment have had a similar pathway to you. They started in contemporary romance and then have moved into the historical fiction area. Why do you think there is that popularity for historical fiction? Chanel: [00:23:37] You know I think there’s just so much that’s interesting to learn about history. And I think there are so many parallels between the past and the present that really inform readers and make for fascinating storytelling opportunities. So I think it’s really just a rich goldmine of inspiration for authors. Jenny: [00:23:56] We started to come to the end of that time to be this. I’m just wondering when you pause and look back over your right and career at this stage if you were beginning now would you do things the same way, or would they be things you might want to change. Chanel: [00:24:16] You know I’m really happy with kind of the way everything’s progressed for me and I definitely think everything’s sort of had to happen in the order that it did. I don’t know that if Next Year In Havana had been my first book I would have been able to to do justice to the story. It was definitely a challenging book to write with the dual time lines and an ambitious project for me at the time. It definitely challenged me as a writer. But I think having that foundation of having written 10 other books gave me the confidence that I needed to tackle the story and to write about something that was so personal. [00:24:51] So I definitely look at my career as a marathon and something that’s evolving and who knows where I’ll be in ten years. I certainly didn’t predict when I started writing that I would be writing historical fiction. But that’s been one of the fun adventures about this career. Honestly is just having this incredible journey and not necessarily knowing what’s coming next but being able to enjoy writing different types of books and interacting with readers and just being part of this wonderful community. What’s next for Chanel Cleeton Jenny: [00:25:20] Sure. And that does bring us to talking about what is next. I think I read somewhere that there might be a third Cuban book. What are you working on at the moment. What does your next 12 months of writing look like? Chanel: [00:25:34] So my next book release will be out the summer of 2020. And that one’s actually finished. I’m waiting on edits from my editor but it’s written and it’s set in 1935 in the Florida Keys and it features three heroines. One is the Beatrix’s aunt and she’s coming up to the Keys from Havana on her honeymoon and her life intersects with these two other women. One is a native of the Keys and the other woman is coming down from the north east on Flagler’s magnificent railroad that he built that was supposed to go all the way to Cuba. Flagler Railway, Florida [00:26:07] Their lives cross during this hurricane that hits in 1935 over Labor Day weekend. It’s actually one of the deadliest storms in the U.S. history but not one that I knew a lot about before researching the book. So it’s really fascinating to work on it and to learn about the characters and their lives and how much the storm really affected the region. There were quite a few World War One veterans who had been sent down there to work on the railroad to get them out of Washington because they were protesting a lot of things that the government was doing, so they sent them down there to make them disappear. And unfortunately when the hurricane hit they weren’t properly evacuated and hundreds of them perished. The mos[00:26:47] And so it’s really kind of a tragic moment in history. But one that was certainly fascinating to write about with all the cultural intersections and just the rich setting of the Keys that really comes to life. That one will be out in the summer of 2020. Then right now I’m currently working on my book that will be out in 2021 and that one is set in the Gilded Age and the time of the Spanish American War. So turn of the century and it’s actually the first time I’ve written about a real life heroine. Her name was Evangelina Cisneros. “The most beautiful woman in Cuba” [00:27:20] And she is a Cuban woman who was known as the Cuban Joan of Arc. She was involved in the fight for independence against Spain and has this really fascinating story. Her life intersects with that of a female character who is working for one of the New York newspapers. They become embroiled in this fight between Hearst and Pulitzer for dominance over the New York newspaper scene and trying to draw the US into war with Spain. [00:27:47] So once again it’s a lot of those cultural intersections that I love to write about and a more unknown period of history that I’ve just found really fascinating because they both sound amazing. Jenny: [00:27:59] And the one that’s coming out in 2020 does that have a title yet. Chanel: [00:28:04] It doesn’t. We’re still going back and forth on titles. I will admit I love the titles for Next Year in Havana and for When We Left Cuba so much that I’ve set the bar a little bit high. So we’re trying to find the perfect title that fits that book. The one that’s gonna be out in 2021 actually does have a title. That one will be The Most Beautiful Girl in Cuba because that was the title that was given to Evangelina Cisneros by the New York papers. It was the front page headline that they used to describe her. Where readers can find Chanel Jenny: [00:28:35] Yes you mentioned the titles the titles are great and also the covers for those books are gorgeous as well. Did you have any input into those? Chanel: [00:28:44] Oh thank you. I cannot take credit for any of those I have been so fortunate that my publisher Berkeley Publishing. The cover department has just given me the most beautiful covers and I’ve just been absolutely thrilled. I don’t really have an eye for that sort of thing. So it’s really fortunate that they’re so talented at what they do. Jenny: [00:29:04] That’s lovely. You mentioned how you like to interact with readers; if people listening to this wanted to interact with you, how would be the best way for them to go about it? Where can they find you online? Chanel: [00:29:19] My Web site is www.chanelcleeton.com and then I’m also really active on Twitter, (@ChanelCleeton) Instagram https://www.instagram.com/chanelcleeton/ Facebook@AuthorChanelCleeton Jenny: [00:29:28] Yes you’ve got some gorgeous graphics on Instagram. Quotes from your books and things very beautifully done. I was having a look at them and thinking gosh this is really inspiring the way that you’ve approached it. Chanel: [00:29:40] Oh thank you. Thank you so much. Instagram is such a fun platform and I’m really enjoying connecting with readers there. Jenny: [00:29:47] Now is it possible if you had approaches from New Zealand or Australian book clubs have you done any international book clubs or is it mainly within the US? And would you be open to that? (Recipes for Cuban food to cook for a When We Left Cuba book club night can be found on Chanel’s website, Sounds a gorgeous idea! Seafood paella and El Floridita daiquiris, an Ernest Hemingway favorite, anyone? Ed note) Chanel: [00:29:59] I’m definitely open to it. I think it would just depend on scheduling with the time difference. But that that would be wonderful. Great. Jenny: [00:30:07] It’s been fantastic to talk. Thank you so much for your time and congratulations on the books. They’re great. Chanel: [00:30:14] Thank you so much. Thanks for having me. Thanks To Our Technical Support: The Joys of Binge Reading podcast is put together with wonderful technical help from Dan Cotton at DC Audio Services. Dan is an experienced sound and video engineer who’s ready and available to help you with your next project… Seek him out at [email protected] or Phone + 64 – 21979539. He’s fast, takes pride in getting it right, and lovely to work with. Our voice overs are done by Abe Raffills, and Abe’s another gem. He got 20 years of experience on both sides of the camera/microphone as a cameraman/director and also voice artist and television presenter. Abe’s vocal delivery is both light hearted and warm and he is super easy to work with no matter the job. You’ll find him at [email protected]

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