Helen Brown’s captivating story telling has created an international phenomenon, a family life narrative on the healing power of cats which leavens grief with comedy. Hi there, I’m your host Jenny Wheeler and today Helen talks about the journey which has seen her books published in 18 countries, and explains how a cat became a metaphor for life. Six things you’ll learn from this Joys of Binge Reading episode: How Helen migrated from journalism to fiction The tragedy that brought her close to her readers What her readers have taught her How a mini ‘mid life crisis’ led to an international best seller Why her next project is a children’s story The part she’d like to see Chris Hemsworth play. Where to find Helen Brown: Website: https://www.helenbrown.com.au/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Helen.Brown.International.Author Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/helenbrownauthor/ What follows is a “near as” transcript of our conversation, not word for word but pretty close to it, with links to important mentions. Jenny: But now, here’s Helen. . Hello there Helen and welcome to the show, it’s great to have you with us. Helen: It’s a pleasure to be here Jenny. Helen Brown international best selling author Jenny: I usually start by asking the “Once Upon A Time” question – how did you come to write fiction? But I know in your case your work has always had a very strong element of personal memoir. And you’ve developed these books into a unique series which marries story telling with memoir… Can you tell us a little about of how that happened? Helen: Well, I think it goes back to basic story telling. I started writing columns maybe forty years ago, and my readers always taught me actually what worked for them. If I wrote a column that touched them, they would write me letters back, and it was so often about something very trivial. They guided me really towards stories they wanted to hear, and they were so often emotional stories about ordinary life that we all shared. I was writing those columns, and they were 750 words roughly for many years. When we moved to Australia, I actually couldn’t get a job over here. Nobody had heard of me, and nobody really wanted me and I didn’t have the confidence or something. So I thought – well, I kind of know what touches readers; maybe I’ll have a go at spinning out to a larger concept. I knew from experience that talking about the loss of my son and the way that our cat had helped us; those stories really got big reactions from readers. So I thought – and it was actually at the same time- the cat that had helped us when Sam died – that cat died itself at the age of nearly 24. Phil, my second husband was burying the cat under the Daphne bush in the garden. And Rob, who was Sam’s younger brother, and had seen him run over back in 1983, said “there goes the last connection with Sam”. I thought – maybe the story hasn’t finished being told. I need to tell the story in full. It was a big exercise and I really wasn’t sure if it was working. Every publisher that I sent the idea to assured me that is wasn’t working! And then I tried several agents who were also not at all impressed. One of them said, “you know, nobody wants to read a book in which a child dies”. So I thought; OK…who are these people who read books? In real life, children die, and in real life when my child was run over in 1983, the best consolation I got was from other parents who had lost children. They wrote to me, and you know I didn’t know anyone who had lost a child. But because of writing about it in my column, they approached me with these wonderful letters and cards which were the best grief counselling that was available in 1983. Cleo – Helen Brown They were basically saying you know, this happened to us; it was the worst thing that ever happened to us, but we survived. We’re still here, and we want to tell you that we’ll get through this. I was indebted to these people. So I sat down and wrote Cleo, many years after the tragedy with a very deep sense of indebtedness to those people. Wanting to be able to write something that might possibly help in a more raw state of grief than I was 25 years after the incident. So I did my best. Jenny: Look, that’s amazing. To have a book like that – it did become an international best seller, didn’t it? To have that turned down by publishers, how did you finally make the break through to find somebody to take it seriously? Helen: As you know, I’ve been a journalist for a very long time and I started thinking maybe I couldn’t write, maybe I’d lost my touch. That’s fair enough; you have to keep learning and refreshing all through your life. Even though people still liked the columns I wrote in New Zealand, maybe I had lost my touch. So I signed up for a weekend course in memoir writing – non fiction writing- down at the library here at Melbourne. Everyone there was very intelligent, well read and wonderful writers. None of them had been published. At the end of the weekend, we had to stand up and tell an outline of a story we had in mind. So I stood up, and just told the outline for Cleo. There was kind of silence. I thought; maybe this is working. Maybe this is OK as a story. The woman running the course, Mimi MacDonald, told me about this thing that Allen and Unwin had, and at the time I think they were the only publishers in Australia who had a thing called Friday pitch. You send in your idea – your actual fiction idea – on a Friday, and they’ll tell you by Tuesday whether it had any length or not. I was frankly so over the whole “project” of trying to write this cat book, and I knew it wasn’t fiction but I was willing to try. I had suffered so much humiliation, so I thought I didn’t have much to lose by sending it to Allen and Unwin. I thought; if someone would take it on, and I could sell 5000 copies in New Zealand where my readers are, I’d be absolutely thrilled. Anyway, they came back to me on the Tuesday and said they would take it. I was very pleased, and started working on new versions. Somewhere in the middle of it, I got breast cancer which was a bit of a hiccup. When it was finished, they took it to London Book Fair. There was this very passionate bidding war for Cleo, which was lovely. I got a phone call in the middle of the night saying “people are crying because they haven’t got this book!” And then Ian Hodder took it, and now I think it’s in 18 languages. It was actually very hard to find a US publisher. We were back to square one, trying to get a high profile publisher- it took ages. Eventually, I think it’s the largest privately owned publisher in the States, Kensington, took Cleo on. They’ve done a wonderful job with it, and have got it on the New York Times Bestseller List which is just amazing. They’ve sort of supported me with the publishing of my other books, getting them into Walmart and so it’s been quite interesting really. Helen and family Jenny: And then several more cat themed books followed, the most recent of which is the one you are on promotional tour with now – and I predict its headed for the same level of success as Cleo. It’s called ‘Bono – the rescue cat who helped me find my way home’ I’m not particularly a cat lover, but I loved this book . . . . Helen: It was amazing, actually. I’ve always tried to be relatively honest with my readers, and tell them where I’m at in my life, and that’s how we have such a good relationship. After I’ve had the breast cancer, the kids had all left home, and I’ve been happily married to a lovely man for 22 years, this kind of thing settled in. I got really restless, and I thought – I’ve had a good life, but what if it was the wrong life? What if I really belong somewhere glamorous, not in suburban Melbourne. Somewhere wonderful, like New York! The thing that triggered it was Philip bought these new pyjamas- he’s still got them. They’re tartan green pyjamas and they’re exactly the same as the ones dad used to wear. I thought, God our life is over! At that actual time, my US publisher Nicola said “come over, come over to New York”. I thought, this is my dream, this is what I want! So I got on the plane, unsure of when I’d come back. She said “but there’s just one thing- while you’re here, we want you to foster a cat”. I have a cat at home called Jonah who’s neurotic- he’s actually psychotic, and on anti-psychotic medicine. I needed to get away from him as much as I did being married! The last thing I needed was another cat! Bono – the cat who became a metaphor for life I want to go to Broadway, I want to go to the art galleries. I couldn’t really say no to a US publisher. I’ve got this friend who does creative visualisation. He said, just imagine the cat you want! So I imagined this fat, grey tortoise shell who only waddled to her feeding bowl twice a day and slept the rest of the time. It was going really well, and I had Lydia with me, my daughter who’s the subject of the previous book and our conflicts over when she wanted to be a Buddhist nun. Well she decided not to be a Buddhist nun anymore, so she went with me to this cat shelter in New York, got there, opened the room and there was this wonderful cat I’d visualised! This tortoise shell, a big, fat sleepy thing. The person running the shelter said “we’re so glad you’ve come to get Bono”. I thought what’s a Bono? Suddenly this bullet flew across the air, this black cannonball – that was Bono. He had a punched up hair do, like a lion, and he was crazy. Lydia absolutely fell for him, and there was no way we were going to go back to our awful flat without Bono. He actually had advanced kidney disease, so nobody would adopt him. The owner said “look, just take Bono home to your apartment and look after him. Give him a holiday from this place, he’s so beat up by the other cats and he’s going to die here, so take him”. And we did. Jenny: I’m not a cat person myself, but I still love the book- you say somewhere in Bono I think that the “cat is a metaphor for life” That’s pretty profound for a book some may dismiss as “another cat book” . Readers just connect with the human story, don’t they? Helen: What have cats done to you that you don’t like them anymore? Jenny: I’m with Gareth Morgan, I just like birds! Helen: OK! I like birds too! You can keep your cat inside which we do, away from the birds. You can be friends with all animals I think, except bed bugs, fleas. This whole thing about whether you’re a cat person or a dog person; it’s so binary, and I don’t think it helps. What does help is that broader perception that animals open other people up, which people can’t seem to do anymore for people. Jenny: Yes, and the book opens you up to various things about what’s going on in your life as well. You do it wonderfully. Helen: You’re a darling. I felt Bono and I were twin souls, a little bit blurry round the edges, and we didn’t really know where our next home was going to be. We were both a bit lost. Somehow things worked out beautifully, actually. For both of us really. I don’t think you grow old as you get older, you grow up. I have nearly grown up now. Jenny: Oh that’s good, I’m so relieved because Philip is such a lovely man! Helen and Philip Brown Helen: Look, half the female population in the world is waiting for me to die so they can have Philip! I should just settle down and be grateful, and I am. I’m so grateful for my life. I’ve made so many mistakes, and I’m grateful for every one of them. Jenny: Yes, I can see what you mean by that. And Cleo is now headed for the big screen sometime soon… have you got as far as casting it yet? Helen: John Barnett who produced the Whale Rider, which is a wonderful movie, has been dedicated to this story since the book came out, and is determined to make this movie. I think he’s planning to start filming it at the beginning of next year. But we’re still waiting to hear who the star is going to be; he wants a big international star. Once he’s found her, then all the other cast will be done around her, from what I can gather. The latest version of the script is very good, and I’m quite happy with that. So we’ll just see what happens. I actually don’t have much power or influence over the process. You feel very vulnerable when it’s your own personal story, like this one is. Again, you just have to release it. And if it’s too painful, then you don’t have to buy a ticket, do you? Jenny: That’s right! You’ve shared a journey common to many women of our time – one of major personal loss, divorce, second marriage, and the creation of two families, and . . these experiences fuel your work . . Have you found a reliable way to manage the emotional toll of writing about such deeply personal material? Helen and Philip – early family days Helen: That’s a very perceptive question, and not many people ask it. I need to ponder it a little bit. I think it’s OK to write about pain and grief from a distance, and you know it was 20 years after Sam’s death that I really started writing that book. I think then, you’re in a state of mind to be able to help others and I think that’s where the healing might come from. I was invited to the tsunami region of Japan a couple of years ago, and the devastation and loss that people were suffering even after the tsunami was immeasurable compared to anything I’ve been through. And yet, they seemed to think I had something worthwhile to offer them. So I went, a great big giant Antipodean that I am. Some of them just wanted a stranger to cry to, and I was so deeply honoured to do that. They are so cultivated and restrained, they probably weren’t able to do it too much with each other. I managed to hold together, apart from getting violently ill at one talk- we won’t there! But on the way home, I just cried all the way home on the plane. I think especially when I’m meeting people who are in the throws of raw grief, it does take a toll. But if they asked me back to Japan, I’d be back in a breath, because it’s one of the most meaningful things I can do with my life. What’s one life worth? Not very much. If you can help one other person, it’s worthwhile isn’t it? Especially as you get older. When I was in New York, and I found out that there was no lock on the window, I thought “oh my gosh, I might get raped or murdered”. But then I thought- actually, that’s alright. I’ve had a really good life! Jenny: What do readers tell you they like about the books.. And they are now published I think in 18 countries – have you noticed people react in different ways in different countries? Helen: What fascinates me, is in whatever culture these many, many emails I get, or where they come from, it’s the same. Everybody is the same. We operate from deep love for our children, and in most cases our domestic pets. There’s nothing we wouldn’t do for any of them. The Germans can get very poetic about it, but on the whole I think everybody. That’s why I find it so bewildering that we focus on the differences between our countries, when human beings, we’re all the same. Moving from talking about specific books to your wider career – Jenny: What is the one thing you’ve done more than any other that you feel is the secret to your success? Helen: I think it’s making an awful lot of mistakes, and learning from them. I made a big mistake leaving school early and going to University, and getting married at 18 and having babies far too young. From all these mistakes, I think I learnt things and they kind of made me an outsider, or an underdog; I don’t know. But ultimately, that turned out to be a positive I think in a strange way. Or take it the other way and say they’re all negatives, and I could have won the Nobel prize if I’d taken the straight route. But I doubt it – I’m pretty ordinary. Jenny: I don’t think you’re the least bit ordinary! But maybe, those experiences have made you very much understanding about your readers, because you do have a remarkable relationship with your readers, don’t you? Helen: Some of them have really become lifetime friends. Maybe I’m a compensated extrovert- I actually love and treasure those relationships where I don’t have to meet face to face. We’ve actually had people come from Italy, Canada, France to the house because they’ve been so obsessed with Jonah and wanted to meet him. That’s alright, if they want to come and knock on the door, and if it means that much to them, it’s pretty OK. Helen and Lydia with the Dalai Lama Jenny: It’s sometimes said writers tend to write the same story in different guises. Do you agree with that idea and if so what do youthink that story is for you? Helen: I think my story is very much like anyone else’s. I continue to be fascinated by life, and I just like the idea of trying to find ways to survive through it, and deeply beyond that; trying to find ways to appreciate life. Being alive. I think I had been told so little about the bad things in life, I think when Sam died for instance, I thought my life was over. I was 28, and saying to older people, will this pain ever stop? What happens? And nobody answered. Even God didn’t seem to want to talk to me about it. So I think I want to reassure to people that even though terrible things happen, and life is tough, it should be tough, it’s also a miracle to be here. There’s even a great joy to be found when the clouds are grey and bearing down on you. It’s a great miracle to be alive, and if we can remind ourselves that, and if I can do that through a sentence, then I’m thrilled! Life is the miracle Jenny: You also have a great ability to laugh at the things. I mean your books have got a lot of humor in them, and you’ve got a great ability to just be able to laugh, haven’t you? Helen: Yes. I think 90% of life is letting go, and laughter helps an awful lot in letting go. I think some people get it through jogging, or exercise at the gym. Or listening to music or nature. But for me, being able to just release things and not taking yourself too seriously; it’s very liberating. I think particularly in this day and age, where everyone has to have a Facebook page, and we’re all taking selfies; every young person is encouraged to think they’re the centre of the universe. When you’re young, you think you are anyway. So it’s like a massive, global, mental illness which I hope we come out of the other side of one of these days. Talking about Binge Reading Jenny: The series is called “The Joys of Binge Reading” because I see it as providing inspiration for people who like to read series . . . .So – turning to your taste in fiction who do you “binge read” ? Helen: Actually Jenny, I’m a very slow reader. I find it hard to read when I’m writing, because I immediately start channeling the voice of whoever I’m reading. I don’t read a lot of fiction, unless my American publisher makes me review it, which I do out of a deep sense of duty. But given the choice, I like to read fiction that’s so close to life; you feel the author is confessing something that’s really going on in real life, and they can only do it through fiction. The one I’ve read recently which I’ve absolutely loved, is Less by Andrew Sean Greer. It won the Pulitzer prize, so I can’t really claim I discovered it! I loved it, because he’s a gay writer and he’s going around the world claiming he’s a fraud. Less – Andrew Sean Greer I so identify with that;( not that I’m a gay! ) but when you’re published in many countries, you still think “well when are they actually going to find out I’m from Taranaki, and I didn’t actually go to University”. Except I did have a fellowship at Cambridge University once. But you know, I loved that in that book! There are sentences in there that are jewels. I’ll read anything by David Sedaris- he crafts such beautiful, self revealing sentences. Another book I’m reading at that moment, although I don’t read very much, because I absorb stuff, think about it and then want to dive back in. It’s actually a friend of mine, Deirdre Coleman, who’s a professor of English Literature at Melbourne University. She’s written a book called Henry Smeathman the Fly Catcher. I’d love to see a film about this, I keep telling her. Henry Smeathman was like the poor man’s Joseph Banks- he was knocking around the world in the 18th century, going to Africa, collecting bugs, insects and never quite making it on the global stage. I quite identify with him; I love him. Jenny: Was he an Englishman or an Australian? Helen: He was an Englishman. Deirdre spent 10 years writing this book, and we saw her through so many lunches while she was writing this book. Henry Smeathman just took her over. That’s why I think it would make a wonderful movie of how this man from 300 years ago dominated this very clever woman’s life in the 21st century. I think it’s quite magical. Jenny: Amazing. I wonder; what was the thing that hooked her? There must have been a lot of people who didn’t quite make a success of life- why was his story one that captivated her, do you understand that? Henry Smeathman – local hero Helen: A lot of her study is around 18th century literature, and she’s very fascinated by slavery. When Smeathman was going out to Africa, slavery was at its height. He was living among slave traders, and people who were being traded as slaves. His perceptions of that were surprisingly compassionate for a while, so that’s how she got lured into it I think. He has an awful lot of charm; he’s trying to be quite witty and upper class. It’s quite hard for him- she found all his letters, and had to go all round the world, digging up. He’s got some dried up monkeys in the basement of a museum in Vienna, and a lot of his letters in Sweden, so she got to travel a lot. Then she went to Africa, where he’d been living. I became quite avid of Smeathman too! She thought no one there would have heard of him, but she got to this island and everyone there was called Smeathman! He had about five wives! Jenny: As you are talking, I can absolutely see it as a movie, and an award winning movie too! Helen: I keep telling her that, because she’s an academic. Academics have a wonderful way of thinking. Between the two of us, we could come up with a great story there. Jenny: It’s kind of an historical Eat, Pray, Love! Helen: I thought she could have Chris Hemsworth as Smeathman. He could leave little butterflies on her pillow as proof that he’s still connected with her! And this place where she went to is so impoverished. In the end, she just walked down the Main Street with her purse open, throwing her money to anyone because she was so devastated by the poverty. I think she had to wait in the airport with half an avocado; that’s all they had. Jenny: It gets better every minute! Helen: Aren’t woman friends the best? It’s been harder for me to find woman friends here in Australia- I think it’s because I work in isolation, writing books, but woman friends are the best! Chris Hemsworth – the man to play Smeathman? And do you have a current series or author – or more than one – you’d like to recommend to listeners? Circling around from beginning to end At this stage in your career, If you were setting up all over again, what if anything would you change? Helen: I would keep on making mistakes. I don’t know what the 21st century hipster, millennial version of making mistakes is. But that seems to be what works for me, because I have learnt from those. I think of it as people who are smarter can read a book, or watch others and realise that’s not a good idea to make too many mistakes. I have no idea what I’d be doing, frankly. Jenny: Is that another way of saying “trust the process”, because the time that you were 26, 27 or 28, you probably didn’t think “gosh, I better make another mistake”- when you were doing it, you didn’t think it was a mistake, did you? Helen: No, it was just driven by my hormones! A lot of the time, but the rest of it was naivety. Jenny: But it’s wonderful to see that you can trust the process, that is fantastic. Helen: And keeping learning. I love having younger friends too; I don’t enjoy just sitting round talking about health with people my own age, because the world is so fascinating at the moment, I’m fascinated by all of it. So I try to talk to some of my children’s friends! Jenny: What is next for Helen the writer – projects under development Helen: Well, you were talking about going back to square one Jenny- I am back at square one, because of all the emails I’ve had from people who have lost siblings, or parents who have lost small children. I feel there’s a real need for a children’s version of the Cleo story, because you know, you think every summer, going back to school there’s an empty desk because someone drowned. Some kid died in a traffic accident, and people are still too traumatized or ignorant to be able to reach out to that child. Or, absolutely encompassed by their own grief as adults. I have done a version of it; I’d like to write a book that can be given to children who have suffered loss themselves. Being able to tell it through a cat, to assure them that there will be life after this event. To assure them that life doesn’t become a vortex, although it may seem that way for a while. Do you think I can find a publisher? Nobody wants it, because they’re scared I think. It’s not going to sell a million copies, but the 5 or 10 copies it does sell will really help sell. Jenny: I think you might be underestimating the number of copies you’d sell. I have a very personal experience with this- I’ve got a little great nephew- my nephew’s son- his Mum died 18 months ago of leukaemia. He was 3 when she died. At the time I said to my sister, who’s actually an Anglican priest- is there any book I can buy James that can make this understandable for him, in his words? And honestly, in all the years she’d been in ministry she’d not come across a book that was suitable for children going through that experience. I’d love to give the little ‘James’ of the world a book like that, at the time there wasn’t anything I could find. Helen: The thing that really drove it home for me was just a few months ago, I got an email from a woman in Germany. This little boy had died of leukaemia, and the child’s younger sister- it was now 2 years passed the death- and they were reading her Cleo, every night. She was six years old. I thought, why are they reading this adult book? It needs to be there. I feel in my bones, one day someone will take it up. It will be a very precious book, and I think if that happened, I’d feel my work would be complete. I do get emails from people saying “please don’t stop writing!”. Jenny: Maybe you could indie publish that one? Helen: No, I don’t want to. I think it’s too scary, indie publishing. I’ve got several books of columns that I’d like to put up one day somewhere, but again it’s only for the people that like to keep hearing my voice. Jenny: Coming to an end we re running out of time – where can readers find you online… or in person Helen: It’s been a big year, actually. I’ve got a massive tour of New Zealand coming up, from October 12 for two weeks. I think I’ve got at least 10 or 11 book signings and public appearances. The highlights of which are the two afternoon teas the Australian Womens Weekly is putting on, very glamorous affairs and hotels in Auckland and Wellington. I’m really looking forward to that, that will be fabulous. I’m really conserving my energy for that. I’ve just heard that Jonah, the book I wrote after Cleo, is just about to come out. They’re doing a commercial version for Walmart next year in the US, so that’s kind of heartening. I’ve just recorded the audiobook of Cleo, which is coming out Internationally on November 1. Gosh, that was a journey Jenny. I haven’t been able to bear to read that book since I wrote it, and reading it aloud… but I didn’t want an actor doing it. Anyway, whenever I got to any emotional part of the book, I’d stumble over my words. Jenny: Well look, it’s been such a wonderful pleasure and privilege to talk to you, it really has. We’ll make sure this gets up before your New Zealand tour so people that are interested will be able to hear it. But it’s been marvellous, thank you so much. Helen: Thank you so much Jenny, it’s been a delight. Thanks To Our Technical Support: The Joys of Binge Reading podcast is put together with wonderful technical help from Dan Cotton at DC Audio Services. Dan is an experienced sound and video engineer who’s ready and available to help you with your next project… Seek him out at [email protected] or Phone + 64 – 21979539. He’s fast, takes pride in getting it right, and lovely to work with. Our voice overs are done by Abe Raffills, and Abe’s another gem. He got 20 years of experience on both sides of the camera/microphone as a cameraman/director and also voice artist and television presenter. Abe’s vocal delivery is both light hearted and warm and he is super easy to work with no matter the job. You’ll find him at [email protected]

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