Show notes
Nicola Moriarty’s latest book You Need To Know centers on a family of three brothers, all writers, caught up in a traumatic Christmas Eve road smash.
It’s Nicola’s way, perhaps of having a bit of a laugh at herself because she’s from a well-known Australian writing family and has two sisters, Liane and Jackie who are also best-selling authors.
Hi there. I’m your host, Jenny Wheeler. And in Binge Reading today, Nicola talks about learning to accept the rough with the smooth, finding her niche in popular fiction and how having two best-selling sisters has fostered her development as a writer.
Six things you’ll learn from this Joys of Binge Reading episode:
What its like having two best seller author sisters
How Nicola has had to learn to take the criticism
why she moved from romance to edgy contemporary women’s fiction
What she learned from her teachers
The writers she admires most
What she’d do differently second time around
Where to find Nicola Moriarty:
Website: https://nicolamoriarty.com.au
Instagram: @NicMoriarty
Facebook: @NicolaMoriartyAuthor
Twitter: @NikkiM3
What follows is a “near as” transcript of our conversation, not word for word but pretty close to it, with links to important mentions.
But now here’s Nicola. Hello there, Nicola and welcome to the show. It’s great to have you with us.
Nicola Moriarty: Thank you so much for having me.
Introducing author Nicola Moriarty
Jenny Wheeler: Look, it’s really lovely. You’re on your sixth book here with You Need To Know. You’ve made contemporary drama with a happy ending a bit of a niche for yourself and you’ve really gathered pace as you’ve been writing.
I really admire the way that you’ve kept on going at it after what was perhaps just a weeny bit of a knock back at the beginning, you’ve got to you’ve got international deals, Amazon best sellers and The Fifth Letter has been optioned for TV.
Nicola Moriarty – one of three best selling sisters with her edgy contemporary fiction
So are you feeling vindicated I hope after that slightly shaky start where you got one rough review in The Age newspaper in Melbourne and took it very much to heart.
Nicola Moriarty: I guess I am feeling a bit vindicated. and I think more importantly, I’ve learnt now to not take reviews to heart and to accept that there’s there’s no way you’re going to get everybody loving your books. So I’ve just gotten much better at taking the good with the bad.
A publishing dynasty
Jenny Wheeler: Yes, that’s good. You live northwest of Sydney, and for some of our audience outside of Australia, we have quite a big audience outside of Australia, they may not realize that you are already part of an Australian family publishing dynasty. because you’ve got sisters, Liane and Jacqueline who are also top selling authors.
This must have increased the challenge for you a little bit at the beginning.
Nicola Moriarty: I think it’s been better for me actually, because I’ve got the benefit of having my two sisters there for me to ask questions and get advice from and, you know, guide me through what the industry is like. So on the one hand, there are reviews that will compare us directly.
And again, that’s something I’ve had to accept and get used to. But I think the good outweighs the bad. I feel very lucky to have them as sisters.
Jenny Wheeler: Yes. Was Liane the first one who got published?
Nicola Moriarty: Jackie was first.
Jenny Wheeler: Jackie was first.
Three brothers – all writers
Nicola Moriarty: Yeah, Jackie then Liane, then me. Jackie started with young adult books and Liane will always say in her talks that it was Jackie who spurred her on. It was seeing her youngest sister get published that made her think, hang on a sec, this was something we both always wanted to do and she’s gone out and done it.
And she’s the younger sister. So, yeah, it really pushed her to the leap.
Jenny Wheeler: Your new book You Need To Know centers around Jill, her three sons and a traumatic road crash. As they travel in convoys as a family for a Christmas break at their beach house.
And I thought it was fascinating given that little bit of background that we’ve just gone into, that you’ve made these three brothers in the story all of them are writers in varying degrees of competition with each other, and it will immediately invite some personal comparison from readers who read it. won’t it? So you must’ve been prepared for that when you created this.
A cheeky joke that took on life
Nicola Moriarty: Well, I was thinking about these characters and what their lives were and what careers they might have. And I started thinking, you know, it’s good to write what you know. And then I, had this sudden idea of ‘what if I made all three of them writers’ and I figured it might be a bit of a tongue in cheek joke about the fact that it was three brothers as writers.
The Moriarty sisters L-R: Fiona, Liane, Kati, Nicola and Jaclyn. – Pic Sydney Daily Telegraph.
And I also thought, okay, it might be a chance to write some parallels, but as it went along, they very quickly became their own people and very different to the three of us. It became a much bigger part of the story as well.
So it took off in its own way in the end, but yes, I’m definitely I’m expecting questions about it.
Jenny Wheeler: Great. It felt a bit tongue in cheek. Darren is a very likable character of the three brothers. He’s probably in a way the most, attractive. And he’s also a good model for fatherhood.
And I have heard you speak in another interview about the fact that there may be quite a lot of your own husband in the Darren character. So there’s more personal parallels there. Isn’t there?
Reflections of real life
Nicola Moriarty: Yes. Actually that’s Pete. Pete is the one that is more, along the lines of my relationship
Jenny Wheeler: So sorry I got that wrong.
Nicola Moriarty: No, no. That’s okay. Yes, Darren, I find as well, a very likable character. But he’s the single one. Pete, as a father, I definitely drew on some personal experiences here and there of what my marriage is like with my husband, which, again, it’s nice to sometimes put a bit of yourself into your writing.
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Jenny Wheeler: Yes. And you are the mother of two girls who you describe as “small, but remarkably strong willed.”
Nicola Moriarty: Yes. They’re not as small anymore. The eldest is almost 13. I probably should update my bio, but I guess they’re still small to me.
Jenny Wheeler: Your books have been praised for their complex plotting. And yet I understand that you don’t really start out with a detailed plot line beforehand. You’ve said You Need To Know started with the idea of the accident, but you didn’t really have an idea at the beginning about how that accident came about. Is that right? Tell us a bit about the process.
Being surprised by her characters
Nicola Moriarty: Yes I generally always just start with a vague idea of what the big climax of the book is going to be, but I never really know how it’s all going to happen, how it’s all gonna work out afterwards. I find that doing a lot of planning doesn’t work for me because if I plan it all out, it usually changes anyway.
So I prefer to just start writing and sometimes I’ll panic a bit and think, ‘Oh my goodness, I don’t know what’s happening. I should be planning,’ but I’ve learnt that I just have to trust in my own process, which is to just keep writing.
Usually it’s while I’m writing that something will suddenly come about and I’ll, realize, ‘Oh, it, it should go this way or this should happen.’ I just seems to work better for me that way. So we’ve gotten used to doing it that way now, I think.
Jenny Wheeler: Yes. Flying by the seat of your pants a little bit, but it keeps it interesting for you as well, doesn’t it?
Nicola Moriarty: Yes, that’s true. Actually it does, you know, although also terrifying at times when the deadline’s starting to loom and I’m worried that I’m not going to be able to pull it all together. But I do like the fact that it means the writing gets to surprise me. Sometimes I’ll be writing and, something just seems to happen on its own. I love that feeling. It feels really good.
How well do we know our closest?
Jenny Wheeler: Yes. You Need To Know also asks the question of how well do you know the people who are closest to you? How well does a mother know her sons or a wife know her husband? And that seems to be a theme of yours because the tagline for The Fifth Letter was ‘How well do you know your friends?’
The Fifth Letter by Nicola Moriarty
Do you live in a world where you’re struck by the feeling that sometimes we generally don’t really know those closest to us.
Nicola Moriarty: I think it’s got to be true for most people. I think everybody has either secrets, not necessarily the big dramatic secrets, but I think everybody has parts of themselves that they keep hidden from the world.
When I look just at my own, either family or circle of friends and all the things that are going on in their lives that they will only tell their closest friends and then consider the person that they present to the world.
I guess it fascinates me because it means that anybody you meet and when it’s just acquaintances and people you don’t get to know well, you have no idea what’s going on beneath the surface. I think it’s more just a case of feeling that that’s the case for everybody.
We self censor by agreement
Jenny Wheeler: And I guess we almost by mutual agreement, with our family and close friends, we agree to avoid certain subjects because they’re too touchy or you know the other person doesn’t really like to have them mentioned. We collaborate together sometimes don’t we?
Nicola Moriarty: Absolutely. I think that’s very true. We avoid things, either purposely or not when needed. It’s very much like that.
Jenny Wheeler: One of your couples in terms of the issue of whether they’re going to have children or not. That’s the kind of touchy subject that they skirt around, but find it difficult to actually really address upfront. Isn’t it?
Nicola Moriarty: I think that can be true as well in close relationships. I guess maybe it’s more, if you don’t want to know the answer you’ll skirt around it.
Jenny Wheeler: Your books have also got an edgy urban feel to them. They’re certainly not in the cozy mystery genre. Social media is a large part of people’s lives. In another of your books, Those Other Women, you use satire about an online rivalry between Mums and non-Mums that spills dangerously over into the real world.
The brutal world of social media
I wondered what prompted that and whether there were things you saw happening with your own peer group at the time that helped to prompt that story.
Nicola Moriarty: Definitely. Discovering the world of Facebook Mum’s groups prompted it a bit and seeing how, when it comes to social media, the different opinions you can get and how harsh people can be, on the simplest of matters as well.
Somebody might put up the most innocent post asking for advice about parenting and would get all sorts of abuse hurled at them, because it seems when it comes to social media, all of a sudden people say things that you would never say in real life.
I quite often I pulled back from those groups for that reason because I was quite sensitive. I remember I put up a post once in a group when my daughter started primary school and I still had the youngest at daycare.
And we were just a bit hopeless with getting out of the house on time and we’d often run late. There was a notice in the school newsletter about parents running late and how detrimental it was to the kid’s school life.
Looking for assurance. . . Yikes!
And I put up a post on this Facebook group, just kind of more asking for people to reassure me, saying how awful I felt about this note in the school newsletter and it felt like it was directed at me and just kind of wanting some support from other mums.
Looking for them to say it’s okay. you’re doing a good enough job. and some people did, but what I also got was these people jumping on there saying, well, actually I agree with the school. You don’t know how disruptive it is when you drop off your child late.
I remember feeling shocked at how harsh people could be. Definitely seeing that prompted me to write about that world in that book.
Jenny Wheeler: Also the topic of whether you decide to have children, or don’t have the luxury of even deciding because you can’t have children. You can see how that would raise some really passionate and, and perhaps even embittered, rivalries amongst women.
If somebody is able to just pop out babies without any particular apparent issue and another person is not unable to have children. It’s a breeding ground for upset and rivalry, isn’t it?
An inclusive little club
Nicola Moriarty: That was another thing when it came to those Facebook groups. I remember looking at the group and realizing that it was filled with all these local women, but that there were women who were being left out because it was all the Hills moms or the Kellyville mums or all the different suburbs and districts around, all these mums groups online.
I recall having this sudden feeling of I knew women who could use some of the information that’s in this group. It was information that wasn’t specifically Mum-focused. I discovered this great new restaurant, for example, and I remember thinking I know women who could benefit from this information, but because they’re not a mother, they’re not being included. And I think that sparked the idea for non-mom’s groups.
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Nicola Moriarty: Check on my dog was just barking. I don’t know whether that was coming over for you or if it was okay.
Jenny Wheeler: No, it hasn’t come through. I don’t worry. It’s fine. What sort of dog is it?
Nicola Moriarty: A Jack Russell Cross King’s Cavalier.
From romcoms to feisty fiction
Jenny Wheeler: Sounds lovely. Earlier on you did write some romances before you found your way into this niche, which has become what you really enjoy.
Nicola Moriarty wrote award winning romance but it didn’t feel like ti was natural to her
You did a tragedy romcom, which won an award, so you obviously did it pretty well and you have other you’ve written other best-selling romance, but you’ve since concluded that romance isn’t your thing. What lead you to that conclusion?
Nicola Moriarty: Maybe it didn’t feel as natural for me. The first one, that tragedy rom-com, that one is closest to what I have right now. At least it’s still had the drama and the suspense in it. After my first two books I wrote a novella which was, a full romance novella to give it a try. it didn’t feel natural for me. It didn’t feel right.
Considering it was only 30,000 words as opposed to my books that are normally a hundred thousand words, it was harder to write. You know, it was a slog getting through those 30,000 words and it didn’t feel like me.
Writing the books you like to read
Whereas the books that I’ve written since feel more natural to me and I like to write the kind of book that I like to read. So that’s what I generally aim for. The books that I’m writing now are the kind of books that I’d read.
Erina Reddan – The Serpent’s Skin – one of Nicola’s recommended books
Jenny Wheeler: There was an occasion when both Liane and you were on the Top 10 lists together at the same time, and I’ve seen a joke quoted in a magazine or newspaper that you’d like to see a day when all three of you might make the list together. And that sparked the thought.
Do you share much career talk on family occasions? Or do you kind of leave that aside and, and just get on with the other sort of family chat that we all have?
Nicola Moriarty: There’s a bit of both, actually. I think when we all get together, there is definitely some book talk. I don’t think it bothers our other sisters. We’re all big readers. One sister Kati is excellent at picking up things. We like to give her the manuscript towards the end and say, all right, let us know if there’s any mistakes in it, because she’s a very good proofreader.
All in the family
My other sister, Fiona she’s very honest with her opinion. So again, she’s good to have as a reader because she’s not the kind of sister who will tell you. That it was good if she didn’t enjoy it, she’ll be honest. And I love that because it means that when she tells you something’s good, you know that she means it, so it feels really good.
And because they’re both big readers, if we all sit and talk about writing, they’re not left out. Especially with Liane having Hollywood connections now, it means we’re all interested.
We all want to hear the latest about that and ask her questions about, where she went to go on set. Most recently for Nine Perfect Strangers which was being filmed up in Byron Bay.
We all want to chat about that and find out what it was like when she went on set and who she met and all that kind of thing. There’s definitely. Industry talk when we get together, but then it also turns to the normal family talk as well. Because between been six kids in the family, there’s always plenty of other things to talk about too.
Growing up in a bookish family
Jenny Wheeler: I’m just trying to imagine that family with five bookish girls. Did you have a mom and dad that were really into books as well? Did you have a lot of books at home?
Nicola Moriarty: Definitely. A family that was all big on reading and stories. Dad was less into reading but more into storytelling. He liked to tell stories, make up stories, you know, big on tall tales, that kind of thing. They were very encouraging of reading and, writing and things like that. You’d definitely call it a very bookish household.
Jenny Wheeler: Turning away a little from the specific books, looking to your wider life, what did you do before you started writing fiction? And was there some sort of catalyst that made you decide to try your hand at fiction? I mean, you might’ve just looked at your two sisters and thought, I’ll give that a go too, but how did that happen?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAwcnIpzLt4
Sister Liane Moriarty’s Nine Perfect Strangers making it to the screen – a topic for family discussion….
Nicola Moriarty: I did pretty much a bit of everything before. I finally settled as a writer. I worked in retail, in hospitality, marketing, advertising. I did door to door sales. I was a swimming teacher. Swimming teacher the one that I did manage to do for a longer time after, you know, jumping from job to job for a long time.
A seemingly impossible path
But basically I’ve always loved writing when I was really little. I definitely wanted to be a writer when I grew up. English was my favorite subject at school. when I was really, really little. I wanted to write and illustrate children’s books. That’s what I thought I would do, until I learned that I wasn’t very good at drawing so that wasn’t gonna work out.
You leave school and the idea of becoming a writer seems like the impossible path. I didn’t really know how you would do that. I set about jumping from job to job, never really finding the right thing for me.
Nicola Moriarty – Paper Chains – the crazy twists of fate that shape our lives….
And then seeing first Jackie, and then Liane get published made the idea of being a writer seem more real and more possible.
When I did sit down to write my first book, I didn’t sit down intending to write a book. I just sat down to write a short story thinking ‘I haven’t done any writing for a while. I miss it.’
I had this idea in mind and I thought, I’ll just write this short story. And when I finished it, I looked at it and went this doesn’t feel like the end. This feels like the start. What I’ve written isn’t a short story. It feels like a first chapter.
The short story becomes a novel
So I slowly kept going with it. Not at first, not wanting to admit that what I was doing was writing a book, because then there was the potential for failure. But along the way eventually I did think ‘All right. I’m trying to. write a novel here’ and I just kept going and going. And it took about three years to write the first book because, you know, there was no deadline in place.
I was still working and doing other things. When I did finally finish, it was a very. Nice feeling of accomplishment. Although also then a huge amount of fear that, I wouldn’t be able to do anything with it. Very happily in the end I was able to.
Jenny Wheeler: The fear of rejection might’ve been a bit stronger being in the family that you were in, I guess.
Nicola Moriarty: Yes, there was, because I gave it to Liane and Jackie to read first and when they read it and they said that they loved it and said nice things about it, I didn’t believe them.
Seeking honest feedback
I was thinking you’re just being nice because you’re my sisters and you’re saying that cause you have to say that.
It wasn’t until a literary agent read it and gave me good feedback that I started to have hope that yes, that I might have something.
Jenny Wheeler: A perennial question I like to ask is, is there one thing you’ve done in your writing career, more than any other that you would create it with getting you this far?
Nicola Moriarty: Oh, that’s a good question. Around the same time as I was writing my first book, I enrolled in a uni degree because I never went to uni straight out of high school. I just wanted to get in straight into the workforce. Around that point where I was thinking, what do I really want to do with my life?
I decided that I would enroll in uni. My plan was to become a high school English teacher. And halfway through that degree was when I finished that first book and found out I was getting a publishing deal. And I ended up changing my degree from the teaching to an arts degree with a major in writing.
Trying her hand at many genres
Doing that really helped with my writing, because it gave me the opportunity to try out all different kinds of writing that I wouldn’t normally have tried my hand at in different genres, doing non-fiction as well as fiction. It really has pushed me along and gave me a good grounding in a good start.
The Silent Listener by Lyn Yeowart – a recommended book
Because the scariest thing after getting that first publishing deal was going okay, now I’ve got to write another book and can I do it again?
That uni degree was a big help and having certain teachers along the way who – same as in primary school and in high school – there’s always certain teachers that stand out to me as the ones who really encouraged me.
In primary school, there was a beautiful Year Five teacher who read one of my stories out to the class.
I remember that feeling of pride. And in high school, I did three unit English and there was a teacher who – it was a very tiny class, so it was only three of us – and there was a teacher who really encouraged us and was very passionate about English.
What Nicola is reading right now
And then at university, I had a tutor who, again, was encouraging. Great feedback just pushed me.
Jenny Wheeler: That’s lovely.
Nicola Moriarty: So in brief, going to uni, but also certain teachers along the way.
Sally Hepworth’s The Good Sister a favorite read.
Jenny Wheeler: We’re called The Joys of Binge Reading and we do like to ask people about the things that they’re reading at the moment, and if they have been binge readers in the past, or even if they find any time to binge read today.
Turning to your taste in books. What do you like to read, particularly in fiction and have you got a current series that you’d like to recommend at the moment?
Nicola Moriarty: I don’t have a series at the moment that I’m reading, but I’ve been reading mostly as I mentioned, books similar in style to those I write. What I’m reading right now is Sally Hepworth’s The Good Sister.
Prior to that, I finished The Serpent Skin by Erina Reddan and The Silent Listener by Lynn Yeowart.
What Nicola would change
I love nothing more than sitting down and reading and if I get the chance to not put down a book all day, then I’ll definitely, binge it, but it’s been a while since I’ve read an actual, series of books
Jenny Wheeler: Circling around because we are coming to the end of our time together at this stage if you were going to do it all over again, is there anything you’d change about how your writer career has progressed?
Nicola Moriarty: I don’t think I would. You know, when I look back at everything, even though there’s definitely been, Bumps along the way and ups and downs.
I suppose maybe I could go back and tell myself not to take those bad reviews to heart, but then again, maybe even that wouldn’t be a good idea because it’s all part of what’s shaped me and I’m happy with, where I’ve gotten so far.
Living a fortunate life
I wouldn’t really want to change anything because it risks losing where I’ve landed. I’ve been okay with taking the bad with the good, and I think it’s all shaped me and I’m happy with how it’s gone.
I feel very lucky that I get to do a job that I love. It’s a lovely thing to be able to do. At the moment I’m still enjoying the ride and, and hoping that it doesn’t end.
Jenny Wheeler: The Fifth Letter has been optioned for filming hasn’t it? How far along is that in development? Has it, has it got to a script stage yet?
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Nicola Moriarty: It’s been very up and down. Originally it was optioned in America by Universal and they took it to NBC. And NBC said they loved it and asked for a pilot script, a script was written by wonderful screenwriter over in America, which I loved. And they took it back to NBC, but sadly they didn’t then green light it and it fell over there.
The slow road to the silver screen
It’s more recently been re optioned over here in Australia now. The last I’ve heard is that they had two wonderful female screenwriters on board. The latest I’ve heard is that a few weeks back they were heading into a writer’s room together.
I’m crossing my fingers and hoping that it will make it, but also aware that there’s a lot that has to happen for these things to get made and, lots of bumps along the way.
I’m trying not to get too excited because I know how hard it is for these things to get made.
Jenny Wheeler: Yes. Australia has been making some very good TV, so you’d be in good hands, wouldn’t you?
Nicola Moriarty: I think so. Yes.
What’s next for Nicola the writer?
Jenny Wheeler: Now what’s next for Nicola as a writer? Say over the next 12 months, what are you working on? Any new things that you’ve got in store?
Nicola Moriarty: Yes. I’m getting started on the next book now. I’m not very far into it yet. But I have the main premise, it opens at the moment with a woman. lying on a lounge room floor and, thinking to herself, being dead is not going to be ideal. And then thinking, well, there’s not much I can do about it, but what I can do is use these last few minutes to figure out who murdered me.
So that’s my opening at the moment. At this stage, I don’t know exactly where it’s going to go. I’ve got a few ideas, I’ve got characters, of this story and you know, I’ve got a husband and a school mum friend, and a uni friend and a daughter, and these suspects and this woman does have a long line of suspects, because she’s quite an abrasive person who has made a few enemies along the way.
That’s pretty much as far as I’ve gotten, and I’m working on that one now.
Where to find Nicola online
Jenny Wheeler: Sounds great. So at this stage, you don’t know quite who’s responsible either. There’s a, there’s an array of possibilities?
Nicola Moriarty: Yes.
Jenny Wheeler: How exciting. Do you enjoy hearing from your readers and where can they find you online?
Nicola Moriarty: Absolutely. It’s lovely hearing from readers. It makes my day when I get a message from somebody to let me know if they’ve enjoyed reading one of my books. So I’m on Instagram as Nick Moriarty I’m on Facebook. I’ve got an author page, under Nicola Moriarty there. I’m on Twitter.
I think I’ve got my full name on Twitter. Yes. I think that’s the main ones.
Jenny Wheeler: We’ll put links, all of those in the show notes for this episode. That’s fantastic. Nicola, it’s been wonderful to talk and all the very best with this book that is about to launch.
Nicola Moriarty: They are about to come out here in Australia. It will be New Zealand as well, in one week. And, about to launch in the UK.
Jenny Wheeler: Lovely. Okay. Well, all the very best with that.
Nicola Moriarty: Thank you so much.
If you enjoyed Nicola’s edgy thrillers you might also enjoy Olivia Hadfield’s sly jokes about Tudor Kings and modern day media moguls. More sisterly rivalry.
LISTEN TO OLIVIA HADFIELD ON JOBR
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