Best selling Australian author Tea Cooper lives in a time warp – a postcard-perfect village two hours from Sydney with 19th-century sandstone buildings, and timber slab cottages which leave you feeling you could be back in the 1830s. Hi there, I’m your host Jenny Wheeler and today Tea talks about how her surroundings inspire her popular historic fiction, and what she’d change if she was doing it all again. Six things you’ll learn from this Joys of Binge Reading episode: Why her first schoolgirl fiction nearly got her expelled How ‘alpacas and proteas’ provided fuel for rural romance Her passion for Wollombi – the Gateway to the Hunter Valley Her gradual morph from romance to historical mystery The writers she admires most What she’d do differently second time around Where to find Tea Cooper: Website: http://www.teacooperauthor.com/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/TeaCooper/ What follows is a “near as” transcript of our conversation, not word for word but pretty close to it, with links to important mentions. Jenny: But now, here’s Tea. . Hello there Tea and welcome to the show, it’s great to have you with us. Tea Cooper – Historical mysteries author Tea: Thank you very much for the invitation, it’s lovely to be talking with you. Jenny: Beginning at the beginning – was there a “Once Upon A Time” moment when you decided you wanted to write fiction? And if there was a catalyst, what was it? Tea: I can’t really remember a time when I didn’t want to write stories. I was one of those little girls who stayed in her bedroom, and made little books, sewing the sides together and things like that. But I guess the light bulb moment was when I was in boarding school, and a group of us decided to write a story on the school gardener. It did get us into trouble, and we had to go our separate ways! The power of words if you like, and how believable a fiction story can be. So I suppose if there was a catalyst, it was that. Two of us actually did go onto work as journalists, so it honestly had an impact on us. Jenny: Just allowing myself to be diverted for a moment- these days if girls started to write stories like that, they’d probably be congratulated on their initiative, wouldn’t they! Tea: It was a long time ago, things have changed a lot since then! Jenny: Was the gardener particularly spunky? Tea: No! He was bald and probably forty, which seemed really old. It was an all girls school, so he was the only male on the premises, the poor guy. Jenny: It’s funny; I had a similar sort of education and even the guys that came in to lay the carpet – well men were so rare that you ogled them all, didn’t you? Tea: Yes, absolutely! I’m glad you understand. Some people look at me a bit sideways and say well did you have a problem? But I think that was the catalyst actually. It wasn’t a nice story! Jenny: But you didn’t get expelled I hope? Tea: Yes- let’s not go there! It was a long time ago. Some people got expelled and others stayed, but it wasn’t very nice so we left afterwards. I would like to point out that we’re all still very good friends. So that’s quite interesting! Jenny: Absolutely, a bonding experience. No long term damage hopefully! So it’s understandable then that you were drawn into romance when you started to write? Tea: It was a long time ago when I first decided to write a contemporary romance. I found a Mills and Boon competition in the Women’s Weekly, so I wrote a story and sent it off. It was a very rainy school holidays, because I was teaching then. Anyway, I sent it off and I won second prize. I won a bottle of perfume but I didn’t get the contract I was hoping for. I don’t really know why I started with contemporary, because history has always been my first love. Where the mystery bits come from I’m not quite sure- that sort of evolved. Perhaps I thought it’d be easier to write a contemporary romance. Living surrounded by the nineteenth century – Tea’s home village, Wollombi, Australia Jenny: Is it true to say you started out in contemporary romance and gradually felt more drawn towards historical mysteries? How did that evolution occur? Tea: Well the first three contemporaries I wrote were published by a small e- publisher in Canada, and then I wrote Lily’s Leap first. That was published by Escape, but after that I wrote another historical called Matilda’s Freedom which Escape picked up and then they picked up Lily’s Leap. So those were the first two historicals. But I don’t really count those as books- I suppose I do, they are e-books, but they’re 50,000 words. I usually sort of say I’ve written four books because they’re print books, and they’re significantly longer. But the biggest milestone obviously was writing The Horse Thief. There’s a nice story to that. I’d written it as a 50,000 word book to send to Escape, and I sent it to one of my critique partners and she sent it back. She said “don’t be ridiculous, he would have been hung as a horse thief”. It was called The Stud Master originally- I’m really bad at titles- and of course that sounded terribly raunchy which it wasn’t. So I went and checked it out, and in actual fact he wouldn’t have; the law had been changed by then. I then finished the story, and he was arrested. So it ended up 90,000 words and that sort of serendipity that happens in publishing – I decided to go to the RWA conference in Sydney. I pitched it to Sue Brockhoff, simply because she’s the only person with historicals on her wishlist, and she wanted Australian stories. They had to be around 90,000-100,000 words, so I was like I’ll give it a go. She accepted it, and it took off like a rocket! Suddenly I was writing for MIRA. The Horse Thief – Tea Cooper Jenny:That’s fantastic! Tea: It really was. Right place, right time. That’s the way things happen I think a lot in publishing. Jenny: Yes, but you certainly put in the work before hand; it wasn’t all just falling into your lap. You’d done a lot of preparation to be ready for it. Tea: Yes, I suppose so. I’m not sure I like this expression, but I think I found my voice. I was much more comfortable writing by then and I’d had a few more stories under my belt. Jenny: What year was The Horse Thief? Tea: 2015. I think it was 2015 – it came out in November, because it was set around the Melbourne Cup they very kindly bought it out around the very end of October, so that was a nice bonus. Jenny: Your debut novel was Tree Change – a contemporary Australian romance and you’ve also done a couple of other “rural romances” like The Other Side of Tom Cat Creek and Back to Blue Gum Flat. This is where you got your trainer wheels in fiction? Tea: Yes, it was. It was because when I decided I was going to try again, I happened to find a Mills and Boon contest online. Again, I have no idea why I wrote a contemporary, but I wrote the first three chapters and shoved it up there and got some really nice feedback about it. I then went onto finish it off. But they’re definitely my apprenticeship. I mean they’re awful. I keep on threatening to take them down and rewrite them, but I haven’t got around to it yet! Jenny: So was Tree Change actually the first manuscript that you finished? Or were there a few in between that you started and didn’t go anywhere? Tea: No, it was the first one. Well the first one was obviously the one I entered thirty years before in this competition. I gave it to a friend of mine to read, and she actually turned up with it not long ago. I called it Arctic Ambience, It was a long time ago! So yes, Tree Change was basically the next story that I wrote. The Journey Home is also a “rural romance”. It was actually published by a small e- publisher, and originally called the Protea Boys because it was based on a protea farm and I had protea farm. It’s easier to write what you know. So I wrote the Protea Boys, and then the other two sort of spun out of that. They’re very loosely based on where I live. It’s much easier to set a book in an area which you know really well. Back to Blue Gum Flat – ‘rural romance’ Jenny: You now have twelve books to your credit – that is a very strong backlist – and you’ve moved more and more confidently into historic fiction. What have been some of the milestones for you along the way? Tea: Well really, that was it. I was writing print books which is what I wanted to do, they were much longer stories. And they take quite a lot of time because there’s a lot of research in them. I pitched it (The Horse Thief) in August, and it didn’t come out until fifteen or sixteen months later. In that time, I wrote another one. Then I started another one, and The Horse Thief came out. I sent the next one to Sue, just to see what would happen and basically, she said yes, they would fast track it. It came out nine months later, and the same with The Currency Lass. Jenny: Have you got a personal favorite amongst your work, or is it always the current book you are working on? Tea: No, I have favourite characters. I don’t think I have a favourite book- I mean it’s certainly not the one I’m writing. I usually detest the one I’m writing; the plot is like a rat’s nest and I’m always convinced it will never see the light of day! I like characters, I really like Slinger in The Cedar Cutter. He’s only a minor character, but I think he’s great. He ultimately saves the day. I became very fond of Rose in The Naturalist’s Daughter. So I don’t really have a favourite book, more favourite characters. One character in a book- I won’t go into it, because I’ve just finished it- I’m very taken with! But no, I think it’s more characters. Jenny: That’s The Woman in the Green Dress is it, the one that’s coming? Tea: Yes. Jenny: Charles Winton, the naturalist at the centre of The Naturalist’s Daughter, is a completely fictitious character, but the controversy over the platypus has some basis in fact. Can you explain “the gap” in the science you’ve talked about that sparked your imagination? The Currency Lass – Tea Cooper Tea: I love gaps! I search for them, I dream about them; I adore gaps. It took me an enormously long time to write that book. I started it after The Horse Thief, and I wrote The Cedar Cutter and The Currency Lass in between. Then I came back to it. At one stage it was going to be three books, so I basically wrote the entire back story as well. I read just about everything I could find on Platypus, and they were fascinating. But there was only one- there was one fact that was very consistent, and that was Hunter (Governor John Hunter, the second Governor of the colony of NSW Australia) was attributed to seeing the first platypus, and witnessing someone spearing the platypus. He had it pickled and sent it to England. And then, I was poking around – I do a lot of poking around- and I found an old journal on Gutenburg which said that a Platypus pelt had been sent to Joseph Banks. (Sir Joseph Banks – famous botanist and naturalist on Captain Cook’s expeditions to Australia and New Zealand,) But I could find no reference to that at all. Now- maybe the ship went down, maybe it didn’t get there at all. But then I thought aha! I ‘m in business. I started playing the old “what if” and that was really the gap. It’s not a scientific gap, it’s more a gap in reporting or recording. Possibly a gap in my research. That’s how it started- I’ve had all all sorts of emails from readers. A couple of them are irate, because they couldn’t find any reference to Charles Winton. So I’ve replied saying “have you read the historical note?” and a reply comes back saying “no. ” Then you get another reply saying “oh my God!” It’s a great compliment. Jenny: I was going to say it’s a huge compliment, because that was exactly my reaction when I started it. I thought, this sounds so convincing, I think he must be a real person- that kind of thing! I guess there’s a gap in the scientific history in the sense that there’s always going to be that question as to what happened- if somebody did send Joseph Banks a pelt, who was it exactly? Tea: Well who was it, what happened and I’m unsure Joseph Banks wouldn’t have done something about it. Did somebody do it, I don’t know. But it was great. The story went through several incarnations and that absolutely came later in the piece. It absolutely made the story gel. Jenny: It must have been nice – I didn’t even realise but there have been some platypus in your Hunter Valley area. Australian platypus – an amazing little creature Tea: Oh yes, there still are. But not very many, and people sort of don’t talk about it because they don’t want them disturbed. That enabled me to bring the story to the Hunter Valley. I mean I like to keep the stories local. If you get stuck and you don’t know what the clouds are going to look like, you just go for a walk up the road- it makes it so much easier! Everybody says just use Google Earth! But no, it’s not the same. Jenny: All of your female characters seem to have a similar trait in that they’re independent, interesting, strong minded, keen to set their course in life. Would that be a fair observation? Tea: I hope so, yes. Jenny: And that’s quite deliberate? Tea: That’s the way they come out. I find it slightly annoying because women particularly in Australia were much more significant in a business sense, whether they were city businesses or rural businesses. We tend not to acknowledge that I think. Sure, they haven’t got any legal rights until the Married Womens Act, but they were a force to be reckoned with. This is a useless piece of information, but in 1850 more of the businesses in George Street in Sydney, which was the main drag, were owned by women than they were by men. Jenny: That’s a fascinating little fact. I guess it doesn’t surprise me; in those colonial societies there sometimes was more room for women to do their thing, even if there wasn’t as much of a conservative padlock on them. But yes I agree with you, I think the same is true in New Zealand. Tea: And also if you look at Macarthur’s wife, he was busy swanning around backwards and forwards trying to keep himself in and out of jail. She ran the entire business, but as far as everybody was concerned, Australia’s fame and fortune was built on the back of a sheep which Macarthur introduced. (Captain John Macarthur – see footnote) But he didn’t do any of the work, Elizabeth did. You’re starting me on something I probably didn’t intend to start! Elizabeth Macarthur – one of Australia’s “invisible women” Moving to a more general focus, away from specific books to your wider career Jenny: Is there one thing you’ve done in your writing career more than any other that’s been the secret to your success? Tea:Obviously having the courage to pitch The Horse Thief, which was horribly terrifying, but it’s the best thing I could have done. And at that time, Australian historicals weren’t the flavour of the month, so really it was a bit of a gamble. That’s without a doubt the best thing I’ve done. Jenny: Actually, there’s been a real flourishing in that part of publishing hasn’t there? Both in the historicals and the rural romances- there’s a whole raft of new female writers who are writing work that perhaps even a decade ago, would of been sniffed at. Tea: There is. But I guess as I mentioned earlier, it’s just being at the right place in the right time until our stars align. Jenny: You’ve indicated your entry into writing was delayed by more traditional commitments of a women’s life – like family life and parenting. – That and the “herd of alpacas and the protea farm” … Do you think it’s harder for women to establish themselves in writing? Tea: Well first of all, the delay in my writing wasn’t so much the parenting as the financial aspect of things. My husband and I were both teachers, and back in the 1980’s interest rates were around 17% and a teacher’s salary didn’t cut it. There was no way I could go and try writing, and there was no self publishing about either. I don’t think that it’s harder for women to establish themselves- maybe in some genres- but perhaps that’s why I chose romance. I don’t remember it being a conscious decision; it was much more a financial decision- could I make a buck out of this and pay the mortgage really, than anything else. Jenny: In a past life you’ve been a teacher, a journalist and a farmer. Tell us a little more about those experiences – and how have they fed into your work. Alpaca and protea farming – all part of the journey Tea: Obviously the alpacas and the protea farm helped writing rural romances. I’ve taught from adult to kindergarten, and pretty much all over the place. It depends whether you want the long story or the short story! I guess I wasn’t afraid of writing. I’d finished at school, and I was supposed to be sitting my University entrance exams. I wanted to be a journalist, and nothing else. I was told if I got a job as a journalist, I wouldn’t have to sit the exams. So I did, and walked into the local newspaper and got myself a job as a reporter. So I think that helped me a lot, because I didn’t fear writing. Jenny: Tell me, what newspaper was that? Tea: I can’t remember- I think it was called The Weekly Post or something. It was one of the local syndicated things in England. 12 months later there was a massive realignment of the newspapers, and I was out of a job. I ended up going to teacher’s college and I did my degree in English and History. At the same time, I moonlighted as an editorial assistant. To cut a very long story short, I ended up teaching in India, but that really is another story. After the contract had finished there, I kept on going and came to Australia. I think any job that you do that involves people helps with writing. Of course it does, because it gives you insight into various different characters. Jenny: You sound very much now like a committed Australian. Tea: I’ve now lived in Australia longer than I’ve lived in England. Except I can’t get rid of my accent! The first podcast I did I was absolutely horrified, I rang up my daughter and said “my God I sound like the Queen!” She asked for the link to listen, and told me that was how I sounded. I’ve ended up not worrying about it now- I can’t do anything about it. Jenny: For listeners not familiar with Australia could you describe the town and area where you live? Tea: It’s sort of like a bit of a time warp thing. Prior to European settlement, my town was a very significant ceremonial meeting place for the aboriginal people. There’s the most amazing rock art and significant sites that date back thousands and thousands of years. It wasn’t until the 1830’s that Europeans started making their way here. They’d started building what was called the Great North Road, which ran from Sydney out to the Hunter Valley and beyond. It was a convict built road- they put them in chains and told them to smash up bits of rock. The road is still used today- it’s the most amazing piece of engineering. But the village was intended as the administrative centre and it was going to open up the Lower Hunter area. But then they moved, and by that stage there were a lot of convicts in Newcastle. They moved the convicts further north of Newcastle, and opened up the area to settlement. By then steam ships had been introduced, and it was quicker to go from Sydney to Newcastle by sea on the steam ship then up the Hunter River, than it was to use the Great North Road. So Wollombi kind of got bypassed, and it kind of just got left. Many of the buildings there date back to the 1830’s- there’s a museum there, and I was down there yesterday doing my monthly museum duty. It’s the old courthouse and it’s still exactly the same; nothing has been done to it. It’s a beautiful building, but it dates back and it’s exactly how it was. Lots of the private houses around here are like that. So it’s really easy to write a historical here, because you’re surrounded by it. Luxury accommodation in Wollombi – gateway to Hunter Valley wine country Jenny: Yes, that sounds gorgeous. Have you been there long? Tea: I moved in 1997 I think it was, and I moved to a place a little closer to Sydney than I currently am. It was time to get rid of mortgage, and I was thinking of retirement, so I moved a bit further out. It also has more of a village feel than the place I used to live- you can go down the road and get a cup of coffee. I’ve got 100 acres here, and I can walk down to the village and get a newspaper or get a coffee down there which I couldn’t do at the other place. There’s a pub down there which is a great meeting place for everyone. Jenny: It sounds like a lovely community. Tea: It is, it’s fantastic. A lot of my books wouldn’t have come to fruition without winding down at the pub. I kind of rock in and say, “ok guys, I’m stuck- what would happen if, or anybody know where you’d find a platypus?!” Come over here for a minute and I’ll tell you- that kind of thing. Turning to Tea as reader Jenny: The series is called “The Joys of Binge Reading” because I see it as providing inspiration for people who like to read series . . . .And series really are the “coming thing” as you’re provingSo – turning to your taste in fiction who do you “binge read” ? Tea: I read anything and everything! I’m one of those annoying people who is a passenger in the car and reads every sign along the road. I obviously read historical fiction and romance, although I’m not a huge Regency fan. Have you read The Naturalist Daughter? Jenny: Yes I have. Tea: I quite enjoyed writing Rose arriving in London because it was a bit tongue in cheek because I’m not a Regency fan. I’m also not a huge series fan to be honest. I can’t seem to get past the second Outlander book, but I love the TV show. I’m more of an author fan I think. Jenny: So you actually like more literary fiction than genre fiction, perhaps? Tea: Not always! I’ve got two books sitting on my reading pile at the moment- there’s a dozen research books- but I’ve got The Shanghai Wife (by Emma Harcourt) sitting here and Aussie Swear words or something like that! I really do read anything. But I adore Kate Quinn’s books, I was lucky enough to get my hands on the latest one of hers, The Alice Network. It was fantastic. I’ve read every single one of her books. Lately I’ve been reading Natasha Lester’s book – I’ve just finished The Paris Seamstress. Her books are set in World War I and World War II. I’ve also just finished The Lace Weaver by Lauren Chater. That’s a debut book I think, and I’m definitely going to be looking for some more of hers! So I think rather than series, I read authors. If I like the book, I’ll go and find the next one or the previous one. I inhale Margaret Atwood too. I’m reading The Book Thief (Marcus Zusak) at the moment. Maybe it is going a bit literary- but what’s the difference between literary fiction and commercial fiction, That’s a huge argument. Jenny: Yes, it is really. Perhaps the commercial sometimes- and they’re obviously are crossovers- but more and more in this environment there are crossovers because the publishing people have more flexibility. They’re not quite kept in the rules that the drab publishers want to impose. There’s probably even more of a moulding of lines than there was before. Most of those you’ve quoted- some I’m not familiar with before- they’re historical fiction aren’t they? Tea: Yes. They have a fairly historically bent. Maybe it’s just the flavour of the month, but yes towards historical. Circling back to the beginning at the end (I see this as a bit of a narrative) Jenny: At this stage in your career, if you were doing it all again, what would you change – if anything? Tea: I would have started a lot earlier! It would have been great fun to have done it much sooner. Jenny: So realistically, would that have meant committing to 5am starts and 1am finishes that you’d have to at the beginning or end of your day, around your other job? Is that what you would have had to of done? Tea: I did a bit of a course in literacy- it’s towards my Masters while I was teaching full time. The only way to do that was to get up at 4am and do it then. I’m not very good at night- I’m better at earlier in the morning. It takes me twice as long at night. I suppose I could have done, but I’m not sure what people did in those days. I don’t know, but then again people didn’t have alpaca farms or protea farms. I wish I’d done it earlier. Jenny: What is next for Tea the writer – work in progress? The Woman in the Green Dress. . is out soon … it’s another historical mystery? Tea: Yes, it’ll be out on 17 December. It’s another historical- they do seem to be becoming mysteries, I’m not quite sure how it happened, it was all of a sudden more of a mystery. It’s another dual timeline. I’m really enjoying playing with the dual timeline thing. The blurb says “a mystery from another era from a distant county draws Londoner Fleur Richards deep into its web, in pursuit of an inheritance, the first Australian opal and a poisonous legacy”. That’s all you’re getting! Jenny: That sounds wonderful, I love the sound of opals and legacies! Tea: It’ll hit the shops just before Christmas, the same time as The Naturalist’s Daughter did. Jenny: And you’re still with MIRA? Tea: The Naturalist’s Daughter came out under the HQ banner; Harlequin was taken over by Harper Collins. So there’s MIRA, and then there’s HQ fiction. I think the difference is that there’s a little less romance perhaps in the HQ fiction. Then fairly soon after the conferences and things, I’ll go back to my 2019 release which is called The Girl in The Painting. I’ve written a very very rough first draft, but I had to put it away otherwise I get the names muddled up! So that’s what’s on the cards, I’ve got this year and next year sorted out. Jenny: So that’s in the first draft stage, and that’s another Australian historical? Tea: Yes it is, they tend to drift a little bit to England occasionally. There’s a little bit about London in The Girl in the Painting. So that’s what I’ll be doing! Jenny: Where can readers find you on line? Are you active on social media? Tea: That’s a bit tricky- my website is currently having an overhaul. It should be up very soon, and that’s teacooperauthor.com which isn’t very difficult. If anybody wanted to check out my books, banging in a search for Tea Cooper Harper Collins Australia, it brings up an author page there, or on Amazon. I’m on Facebook as Tea Cooper, and I’m on Twitter and Instagram, although I’m appallingly awful there so I wouldn’t take any notice of me on there. I’ve got a newsletter, and there’s a link on my Facebook page. Jenny: Great, so they can be in direct contact with you there. Do you also do anything on Good Reads? Tea: Yes, I’ve got a Goodreads page. I tend to stay away from it a little bit- well, I go through phases with it actually. I tend to interact with readers in that situation, but it’s not an author’s space, more of a reader’s space. Jenny: Yes, no it isn’t really. So you’d prefer to interact wth readers directly through your newsletter or on Facebook? Tea: Yes, Facebook. I like Facebook, it’s nice and easy and I get a nice little ping on my phone when I get a message. And check out my website- it should be only a little while Jenny: Ok, we’ll say find Tea on Facebook. Look, its been wonderful talking to you, thank you so much. I know we’re going to have the chance to meet at the upcoming Romance Writers New Zealand conference which I’m really looking forward to. Tea: Thank you so much for the invitation, I’m really looking forward to catching up with you. * Captain John Macarthur Macarthur and his wife Elizabeth established Elizabeth Farm at Parramatta after the Governor granted him 100 acres there in 1793. Appointed Paymaster of the NSW Corps and Inspector of Public Works, Macarthur controlled much of the colony’s resources and had unrestricted access to convict labour. His land grant was cleared using convicts and, as owners of the first farm in the colony with 50 acres or more cleared and cultivated, the Macarthurs were awarded a further 100 acres. The Macarthurs worked together to expand their pure merino flock, breeding more than 4000 by 1803. John Macarthur was absent from the colony for extended periods of time – from late 1801 to mid-1805, and from 1809 until 1817 – defending charges of misconduct in England and avoiding arrest in Sydney. During this time, Elizabeth and John’s nephew Hannibal developed and managed the flock and wool production. In 1807, the Macarthurs sent the first bale of Australian wool to England for sale. Auctioned at Garraway’s Coffee House in London, it sold for ten shillings four pence per pound. In 1813, Australia’s first commercial shipment of wool, from Elizabeth Farm, arrived in England valued at more than £8000, based on the previous sale price. Thanks To Our Technical Support: The Joys of Binge Reading podcast is put together with wonderful technical help from Dan Cotton at DC Audio Services. Dan is an experienced sound and video engineer who’s ready and available to help you with your next project… Seek him out at [email protected] or Phone + 64 – 21979539. He’s fast, takes pride in getting it right, and lovely to work with. Our voice overs are done by Abe Raffills, and Abe’s another gem. He got 20 years of experience on both sides of the camera/microphone as a cameraman/director and also voice artist and television presenter. Abe’s vocal delivery is both light hearted and warm and he is super easy to work with no matter the job. You’ll find him at [email protected]

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