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The Knowledge Project

Morgan Housel: Wealth is What You Have Minus What You Want

20 Jan 2026

Transcription

Chapter 1: What drives you to achieve financial independence?

0.031 - 20.042 Morgan Housel

It's not necessarily how much you have, it's just the contrast to what you have before. Would you rather have a net worth of a million dollars when you used to have two million, or would you rather have a net worth of $500,000 when you used to have $200,000? And psychologically, most people would rather have $500,000. The speed at which a luxury becomes a necessity is two seconds.

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Chapter 2: How does money influence happiness versus satisfaction?

20.443 - 23.708 Shane Parrish

What advice do you have for somebody living paycheck to paycheck?

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23.728 - 36.575 Morgan Housel

I always say two things. One is that... The second is... affordable housing, I think, is the single biggest social problem because so many other social problems that might seem bigger than that are downstream of housing.

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37.156 - 54.54 Morgan Housel

A lot of the drug problem, the fertility crisis, the degradation of politics, because if you don't feel like you're invested in your community or you're invested in your country, it's much easier to be like, burn the place down. And so much, I wrote this in Psychology Money, if you have to sum up doing well financially in one word, I think it's

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58.216 - 63.223 Shane Parrish

You've been incredibly successful and sold over 10 million books.

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Chapter 3: What are the key factors in becoming financially independent?

63.583 - 64.625 Shane Parrish

What drives you today?

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65.967 - 77.743 Morgan Housel

Well, you've been incredibly successful too, Shane. I've looked up to you for years as well. But I bring that up. I think that's an important thing to bring up because what has driven me are people like you.

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77.892 - 100.813 Morgan Housel

And others, James Clear, Michael Lewis, people who I've really looked up to and not been so crazy to say, I wanna be that person one day, both because that's not, everyone should just do it in their own way. But I've always been, I think there's a difference between envy and aspiration. You can be really inspired by someone's success without envying them.

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101.714 - 108.162 Morgan Housel

And if I can name half a dozen people that I've really looked up to and said like, man, they're a good role model.

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Chapter 4: How should you invest your money for long-term success?

108.663 - 125.961 Morgan Housel

But the important thing is I don't envy them. I can also name half a dozen people I won't, who I've envied. And when I try to get introspective about that, why do I envy that person? It's usually it's because they achieved a level of success, but I didn't like how they did it. And that's a subjective thing. Maybe they're all good people in their own right.

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125.981 - 141.75 Morgan Housel

I don't want to be too judgmental, which is why I won't name them. But I think it's an important distinction of people in your life who inspire you versus you envy them. And I think everyone, if they're honest, probably has some of both. But I really – I like looking up to people where it's like not only do I appreciate what you did professionally –

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141.73 - 158.946 Morgan Housel

and think you did it with a high level of integrity, and you look like you're having fun doing it. But at least from my appearance, I like the whole package of the life that you're living, and that's really important. Because there's also a lot of people, particularly in finance, who I can say, man, career-wise, you did amazing.

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158.926 - 179.73 Morgan Housel

But as I get to know you, I realize that your home life isn't that great and your health isn't that great. Or maybe you don't actually enjoy your life. And so do I actually want to chase what you've achieved? Like, no, maybe not. And so you ask what inspires me. I think it's that. Having people in your life that you look up to and you can use as a North Star is important.

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180.391 - 197.376 Morgan Housel

The other that I think is really important, I think this was a Buffett line. He said, it's really good to have people in your life who you don't want to disappoint. Nothing is a bigger motivator in life than having a couple people, rarely more than that, that you really don't want to disappoint. I really desperately do not want to disappoint my wife and kids.

197.877 - 209.098 Morgan Housel

I really don't want to disappoint my parents. That's fundamental. I think most people will have their own version of that, but something like that. And nothing is more of a motivator than that to want to live a good life.

209.18 - 223.806 Shane Parrish

But if you look back 30 years ago and you could see what you've accomplished today, the financial success, the status success that you've had, you've blown away any goal that you would have had. Why keep going?

225.248 - 243.56 Morgan Housel

I think in a healthy way, I can have a very split personality of, on one hand – I can say, man, I'm really good at what I do and I'm achieving a lot and this is amazing. And then I can very quickly flip a switch and say, I'm a nobody and I've done some really bad work lately.

244.021 - 263.859 Morgan Housel

And I think on balance, that's a pretty healthy personality because if you only have the ego side, you're going to run yourself off a cliff. And if you only have the humble slash depressed side, you're never going to get anywhere. And so I've been pretty good at being able to toggle back and forth sometimes within the same hour, certainly within the same day. And so what keeps you going?

Chapter 5: What personal experiences shape our views on happiness and wealth?

3549.567 - 3565.789 Morgan Housel

I mean, it's a great question because I don't think I've thought about that whatsoever. My wife and I met when we were young. We were 19, 20 years old when we met and had nothing. And no money. We were college students and of course we had nothing. And are we happier today?

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3566.174 - 3579.095 Morgan Housel

We have a different sense of life because now we've been together for 20 years and we have two lovely kids together and whatnot. So there's a very different view on life and a sense of accomplishment for that. But are we happier? And I think that's no, but that's not uncommon.

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3579.616 - 3594.222 Morgan Housel

Not everybody, but a lot of people, if you ask them, when was the happiest time in your life when you had the most laughs, the greatest times? A lot of people, not everybody, will tell you high school, college. High school, college, I was a man hanging out with my buddies and parties. And we did this crazy thing. We did that crazy thing.

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3594.783 - 3614.58 Morgan Housel

And one of the common denominators of that era, of that age, is you have no money. But you're still very capable of having a great time with your friends and laughing and going out and going to parties and going on road trips, whatever it might be. And so the things that make my wife and I happy, we like walking our dog and we liked that 10 years ago as much as we do today.

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3615.301 - 3634.167 Morgan Housel

And even before we had a dog, we like going for walks and doing this. We like laughing and talking about things and whatnot. It's things that don't cost any money whatsoever. And I think that is a perfect example of the list of things that money cannot do for you. And so if I look at my own life relative to who I was 10 years ago, does my wife love me more? No.

Chapter 6: How does social comparison influence our financial expectations?

3634.4 - 3656.491 Morgan Housel

Do my kids love me more? No. Now the psychology of downgrades can play back in here because what would happen if my career imploded and it was my fault? Would my wife might love me less? Like maybe because the psychology of downgrades and taking care of your family, that plays a role in there. Would my kids think less of me if we had to fire sale our house and move into a Rocheville apartment?

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3656.511 - 3678.261 Morgan Housel

Like maybe. So there is some element, particularly on the way down, but definitely on the way up. The psychology of it is not necessarily what you think. What my wife values, and of course, this is not unique to me, is that I'm a good husband. I pay attention. I listen. I'm helpful. I'm grateful. Not how big is our house or how fast is our car.

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3679.443 - 3685.011 Shane Parrish

Yeah, that's a good place to be. What can you learn about someone from how they spend their money?

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3686.695 - 3693.889 Morgan Housel

I think it is a very insightful window into people. Now, is money everything in the world? Of course not. Is it the most important thing in your life?

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Chapter 7: What role does patience play in investing and financial success?

3694.109 - 3718.624 Morgan Housel

Absolutely not. But it is a very clear window into how people think about social aspiration. self-confidence, doubt, a lot of other things. I could list half a dozen things that are obviously more important than money. Health, humor, your relationships with people, obviously more important. But when you look at how someone spends money, you're like, oh, I can tell a lot about you.

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3719.204 - 3737.373 Morgan Housel

If I saw your bank account and your credit card statement, I could learn a lot about you. I could probably learn as much about you from that as I would if I spent a couple of days just getting to know you. And so I think that's true. Even just looking at how people dress, I think is very interesting. I always make this point of like, and this is true as a shade of gray.

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3737.393 - 3745.508 Morgan Housel

There are exceptions to this. But when I see like a middle-aged man driving a yellow Ferrari, I'm like, look, I don't judge, but I'm like, there's a story there. Yeah.

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3745.488 - 3771.192 Morgan Housel

and i bet most of the time not all the time but the story is that person was snubbed or doubted or doubted themselves at some previous point in their life and the yellow ferrari is a trophy to show to others and to show yourself of like i made it i overcame that's what it was and that's why i think in general too the yellow sports car so to speak tends to be a new fun a new money phenomenon

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Chapter 8: How can we define success in relation to our relationships?

3771.172 - 3791.114 Morgan Housel

Not a lot of old money families with those or fewer of them. Because I think the new money wealth feels vindicated over what they overcame. I used to be poor and I'm not anymore. And I want people to know it. And I want to show myself. It's a trophy to myself. Whereas the old money family is probably closer to be like, look, we've always had this. It's like we didn't have to overcome anything.

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3791.194 - 3794.018 Morgan Housel

It's the expectation. It's the expectation of it.

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3794.138 - 3805.714 Shane Parrish

I look at the people who do that and to use the yellow Ferrari example and- I'm like, that person has a chip on their shoulder and also wink. Like I relate to that.

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3805.754 - 3822.863 Morgan Housel

Yeah, and I don't think that's a bad thing. It's not a criticism. I have a family member, I wrote about this in The Art of Spending Money, who grew up extremely poor, homeless, foster system kind of poor, and then became a very successful businessman. And he told his daughter, when his daughter was getting ready for college, he said, please pick the most expensive school that you can get into.

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3822.843 - 3841.62 Morgan Housel

Please, I'm begging you. It was almost like the more expensive, the better. As in like- He would feel better. He felt so good about what he overcame. The idea that he could say, I used to be homeless and now I'm sending my daughter to a school that costs 70 grand a year or whatever it was. That was a trophy for him internally. It wasn't even signaling to others.

3841.7 - 3855.518 Morgan Housel

It was, I think he went to bed that night being like, I did it. I did it, man. And so that whole idea that like a lot of spending is not utility. It's not even rational. A lot of times it's filling a psychological hole that you have from some point in your life.

3855.538 - 3879.2 Shane Parrish

We have a mutual friend, Brent Beshore, and he has the concept that has stuck with me ever since. And I use it so often now between clean fuel and dirty fuel and sort of what motivates you. And he argues that clean fuel is a better source And I, I counter this with like dirty fuel. It never goes out. Like you don't use it up. It just, you keep going with it.

3879.221 - 3896.185 Shane Parrish

And that drives in part society and it, it might drive that person to buy the yellow Ferrari or send their kid to the most expensive school. But they did that by creating some sort of economic value in life to get rewarded for that. And that's their, their status thing, whatever, keep going.

3896.165 - 3915.186 Morgan Housel

Whatever it might be. I think I've become much less cynical and judgmental about whatever your thing might be. So again, when I see the LFR, I don't judge you, but I know there's a story. And now I have a story. I have my own insecurities and faults and flaws. And when everybody does and you express them in a different way, and maybe it's a case I mentioned earlier, I've always been a big saver.

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