Chapter 1: What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
When your therapist won't take your calls anymore, there's always The Last Show with David Cooper. We all have those mind games that we play with ourselves that work against our own best interests. We all have our own BS. But what if you had a therapist to help you work through it? Well, that's exactly what we have here on Therapy Thursdays on a Wednesday.
Chapter 2: What are the common forms of self-sabotage?
I'm joined by social worker and therapist Gary Dierenfeld to help you and maybe help me and maybe help Gary as well.
work through our bs gary a joy it is to have you here great to be with you again david uh where where do you want to start i mean there are so many ways we can self-sabotage there are and that's exactly what i want to start with i think that's a really good form of somebody's personal bs when they work against themselves when they self-sabotage especially when things are going well in their life side note i am guilty of this one often
You know, underneath it, for many people, it comes from a place of self-worth, David. You know, am I worthy? I may not be.
Chapter 3: How does self-worth influence our actions?
And listen, that's not for everyone. For others, their growing up experiences might have been that when good things happen, something bad follows. So they're literally waiting for the other shoe to drop. And the anxiety, the anxiety of waiting for that shoe to drop, for some people, they take control of that by this self-sabotaging because at least when that shoe drops, it's under their control.
I know it sounds weird. No. But that's what makes it a mental health issue.
A lot of people grow up in households where they don't feel deserving. There's emotional issues. Maybe they don't get the love and support that they felt that they should have had.
Chapter 4: Why do we wait for the 'other shoe to drop'?
Or worse, abuse. Abuse. And so when we become adults, these structures that are dysfunctional, that are dysfunctional. don't make us feel good about ourselves, they're familiar. They're what we grew up with. And so we attempt to play them out as adults. Maybe it's in a partner, maybe it's in a boss relationship.
Maybe it's when things are going well, you don't do your work so that you're then laid and then your boss is angry with you. And that looks like the way your parents were angry with you.
And it helps for predictability.
Chapter 5: How can we recognize and change dysfunctional patterns?
You know, if that is what I'm used to, if it ain't happening, it's weird, but that's uncomfortable. And so to restore that sense of comfort, and again, this is all very psychological, To restore that sense of comfort, we do sabotage ourselves because it brings back what's familiar.
I have struggled with this. I'd like to think I've worked through this, but in my mid-20s, this feeling of not liking myself was familiar. It reminded me of my childhood. So I would play out structures in my life. I got divorced. I had some struggles at work. I struggled with drinking so that I could kind of be in that familiar place of not liking liking myself.
It's kind of boring for me to just like myself and be in a good place. I know your big thing, Gary, is aspire to boring, but that was not me in my 20s.
Let me jump in on that. I love what you just said, that when things are going well, it feels boring.
Chapter 6: What role does boredom play in self-sabotage?
Yes. And if you're used to chaos... That boredom, that thing's going well, actually screams at you. It's like nails on the chalkboard. And so rather than, you know, my line is relax into the mess. Rather than relaxing into that discomfort and getting used to it, it's like dipping your toe in cold water when you need to jump in. people exit and they exit through that self-sabotage.
We want people to get comfortable with the discomfort. I think of the kids' song, the Hokey Pokey. You put your big toe in, you take your big toe out.
Chapter 7: How does comparing ourselves to others affect our mental health?
You put your whole body in, you take it, right? What is this, the Gary singing hour? Go ahead. Can you imagine? So look, this is how we get over some of those scripts, right? By deliberately sitting in the discomfort. And, you know, we talked before the show. I've been traveling a lot. recently, and you know that I'm not a traveler, you ask myself, does this change things for me?
Am I getting more comfortable with travel? And the truth of the matter is, I am. And I'm actually looking forward to some more trips. I never thought I'd be that person. So the more we extend ourselves into the discomfort, you know, I'm not talking about discomfort that is abusive.
I'm talking about discomfort that is actually wholesome, healthy, fun, otherwise good for you, reasonable, but we're not used to it.
Chapter 8: What is the significance of the scarcity mindset?
As you extend yourself into that, you can relax into it.
In my 20s, there was a certain discomfort for me around a boring, stable, happy life. And so I would sabotage myself. I would set up structures that basically set me up to fail, to get in trouble. Felt a lot like the way I got in trouble and seen as a kid negatively. That was how I got attention in my house growing up, by acting out. When I didn't act badly, I just got ignored. And...
existing in the boring space where things in my life are relatively stable and good and happy and not so dysfunctional took work. Like I had to expand my tolerance for happiness. Yes. Yeah.
It's, you know, it sounds so weird to say it, but I'm glad that you are because that's it. Exactly. Now to contrast, you're growing up with mine. My dad wasn't a bad man by any means. However, he wasn't available. He was a workaholic. He had to work. And so I missed him. I literally missed him. And I found that when I acted out, it brought him back in. It was to punish me.
It was, you know, for discipline. He, you know, reamed me out. When I say reamed me out, it wasn't explosive. It just wasn't his nature. But at least I'd get a talking to. But for me, that was FaceTime with my dad. And I enjoyed that. It was worth it because I missed him.
And that's why you act out so much as an adult now. No, I honestly, I do wonder, like, is this why I'm on the radio? Is this why I want to be a performer? Because I want, you know, to be seen, but do it in like a healthy way. That's a conversation for me and my psychiatrist, but still.
No, but there's value in what you are saying. You know, I was thinking about talk show hosts before we picked up the mics today and what motivates them. and it's nice to be heard. It's nice to be seen. It's nice to be valued.
In therapy, there's a concept. I think we've done this topic many, many months ago called sublimation, and I'll define it. It's when you take kind of a negative trait and you transform it into something positive. Maybe as a kid, you're like a violent kid. You're a bully. You hit people awful.
As an adult, maybe you become a professional boxer, and that way you kind of like have a structured, healthy way to, to take out some of these maladaptive traits. Maybe as a kid, you're like obsessed with death, but rather than like becoming, I don't know, a murderer, you like become a cancer doctor.
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