The Last Show with David Cooper
John Hawkins: What Star Trek Teaches Us Of Economics - January 9, 2026
10 Jan 2026
Chapter 1: What insights about economics can we learn from Star Trek?
Exploring both interstellar and interpersonal space-time continuums. The Last Show with David Cooper. I'll admit it. I'm a Trekker, not a Trekkie. I love Star Trek. But beyond phasers and pointy ears, the sci-fi series might be covertly teaching us about money, power, desire and economics, even in a future that claims its officers don't use cash.
I'm here with John Hawkins, the head of the Canberra School of Government at the University of Canberra. John, welcome to the show.
Thank you, David.
John, you wrote an article titled, Can you live long and prosper by learning economics from Star Trek or is that highly illogical? And when I just saw that headline, I knew I needed to talk to you. What's the main thesis here as an economist? What are we saying about Star Trek and what it can teach us?
Well, so most of the articles I write during the year tend to be fairly dry about talking about some bit of economic data that's come out. One that gets to sort of Christmas, New Year, I like to do something a bit more lighthearted. But I also want something that can get my students interested in economics by applying it to sort of popular culture.
And I think there are aspects of economics that you can learn from watching Star Trek. And one of those... is the difference between conventional economics and behavioural economics. So conventional economics assumes everybody is very sort of logical, rational, and so very much like Mr Spock.
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Chapter 2: How do conventional and behavioral economics differ in Star Trek's context?
Whereas behavioural economics says, well, no, in reality, people try to make sensible decisions, but they're not always logical. They're often impatient. They make mistakes. They don't have perfect information. And they're emotional. So they're more like Captain Kirk.
But at first glance, the Federation, the fictional organization that is the good guys, I guess, in Star Trek, they claim to be a money-free kind of post-scarcity society. Is this the economic utopia that they're claiming it to be? Or in the universe, are there a lot of contradictions there?
There are some contradictions. So it's interesting, yeah, they do claim to be post-money on some occasions and they've got replicators which are essentially like 3D printers and you can generate food or any other object you want from them apparently sort of costlessly. Yet, from time to time, monetary terms slip into the conversation.
So, in one episode, Billans referred to as having counterfeited currency to purchase a ship. Well, if there was no money, that wouldn't be possible, for example. Another episode, there's a pile of jewels, and Kirk, in theory, actually said this would be worth a fortune. So again, that wouldn't make any sense if there was no money.
It seems like it is very hard to run an economy, even a fictional one, without the use of money in some form or another.
Of course, enter the Ferengi, a race of aliens that have capitalism dialed up to 11. It's meant to be sort of satire, but here's a race that's always chasing profit, isn't it?
Oh, absolutely.
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Chapter 3: Is the Federation's money-free society a true economic utopia?
So they've got a few hundred rules that govern our society and they're all about making money. So the things like employees are the rungs on the ladder of success. Never hesitate to step on them.
So walk me through this behavioral and other kind of economics that I definitely listened and definitely know what it is. Why is Spock such a good example as like this straight, rational man?
Because he has no emotions, or at least he suppresses his emotions, and really claims to be making all these decisions purely on logic, so not with any emotion, not really taking into account how other people are affected, looking after his own sort of self-interest. So it's what economists sometimes call homo economicus, this perfectly rational, self-interested, patient person
person who makes the best decisions they can and therefore doesn't regret them. And so it's very much unlike what other people are like, what Bones is like, what Kirk's like, which is much more similar to what you and I are like.
So Quark, who's a Ferengi in one of my favorite series, Deep Space Nine, he's a bar owner, but he really exploits his workers, he suppresses unions, he plays dirty. Why does his storyline feel so familiar to us, even though it's in deep space on a space station?
Because we've probably all dealt with people who are like him.
Just exploiting workers, like that's a feature of economics, I suppose.
Yes. I mean, even Adam Smith is taken as the sort of father of laissez-faire conventional mainstream economics, commented that people in the same trade never join together even on a social occasion, but they come up with some conspiracy to rip off the public. And so that's the sort of behaviour which we see all too often.
There are tech billionaires in our world today that have varying degrees of odd beliefs around the utopia that technology will bring. But I think Star Trek's a good example of why technology may not fix our inequality problems. Do you agree with that?
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Chapter 4: What role do the Ferengi play in understanding capitalism in Star Trek?
And now I guess we have the Borg on the one hand, and then we have... Okay, talk to me about replicators, because on its face, it seems like these objects that could make whatever we need, food, objects, whatever, would solve all the world's problems. Do you think if we had technology like that today in every household, do you think all of our problems would just magically go away?
Well, it sort of gets rid of scarcity in one sense, in that you're not stopped from producing something by not having enough money. But there's still scarcity in other ways. So you've still only got 24 hours in a day, and so any decision to spend time doing one thing means there's something else you don't do.
So people still have to face those basic sort of economic decisions, even in a world where replicators can generate all these things.
And wouldn't there still be people who desired power and prestige? Like, wouldn't these be the new things that we would be working towards, not material goods?
Yes. And I mean, Star Trek, they often encounter characters like that.
And what is your favorite series? I got to take the whole, like, hardcore economics analysis of Star Trek aside. Like, what possessed you to write this? What's your favorite series in it? What makes you like Star Trek so much?
Well, I co-wrote it with a colleague. So last year, I wrote a similar article about Star Wars. And he said, no, Star Trek's much better than Star Wars. You should write about that. And so we made an arrangement where I wrote about the original series.
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Chapter 5: How does technology in Star Trek challenge our economic perspectives?
I'm more a Kirk and Spock guy. And he wrote about the Deep Space Nine and some of the more recent series. He's a big Ferengi fan.
Now, you're mentioning two possible future scenarios, one more dystopian, one more utopian. Are there economic choices we could be making right now as a society that'll push us more in the good direction than the bad one?
Well, there's a lot of people who are seriously worried we're going towards the bad one at the moment. A lot of the sort of people who sort of run these big tech companies aren't always people that you might admire, unreservedly, to put it mildly.
Oh, don't get me started on big tech company CEOs. We don't want to smell Elon's musk right now. Well, John, I appreciate you chatting with me. It's a great read. Check it out. It's called Can You Live Long and Prosper by Learning Economics from Star Trek or Is That Highly Illogical? You can read that in the conversation.
John Hawkins is the head of the Canberra School of Government at the University of Canberra. John, thanks again. I appreciate your time.
Thank you very much, David. Live long and prosper.
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