John Hawkins: What Star Trek Teaches Us Of Economics - January 9, 2026
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What insights about economics can we learn from Star Trek?
Exploring both interstellar and interpersonal space-time continuums. The Last Show with David Cooper.
I'll admit it. I'm a Trekker, not a Trekkie. I love Star Trek. But beyond phasers and pointy ears, the sci-fi series might be covertly teaching us about money, power, desire and economics, even in a future that claims its officers don't use cash. I'm here with John Hawkins, the head of the Canberra School of Government at the University of Canberra. John, welcome to the show.
Thank you, David.
John, you wrote an article titled, Can you live long and prosper by learning economics from Star Trek or is that highly illogical? And when I just saw that headline, I knew I needed to talk to you. What's the main thesis here as an economist? What are we saying about Star Trek and what it can teach us?
Well, so most of the articles I write during the year tend to be fairly dry about talking about some bit of economic data that's come out. One that gets to sort of Christmas, New Year, I like to do something a bit more lighthearted. But I also want something that can get my students interested in economics by applying it to sort of popular culture. And I think there are aspects of economics that you can learn from watching Star Trek. And one of those... is the difference between conventional economics and behavioural economics. So conventional economics assumes everybody is very sort of logical, rational, and so very much like Mr Spock.
How do conventional and behavioral economics differ in Star Trek's context?
Whereas behavioural economics says, well, no, in reality, people try to make sensible decisions, but they're not always logical. They're often impatient. They make mistakes. They don't have perfect information. And they're emotional. So they're more like Captain Kirk.
But at first glance, the Federation, the fictional organization that is the good guys, I guess, in Star Trek, they claim to be a money-free kind of post-scarcity society. Is this the economic utopia that they're claiming it to be? Or in the universe, are there a lot of contradictions there?
There are some contradictions. So it's interesting, yeah, they do claim to be post-money on some occasions and they've got replicators which are essentially like 3D printers and you can generate food or any other object you want from them apparently sort of costlessly. Yet, from time to time, monetary terms slip into the conversation. So, in one episode, Billans referred to as having counterfeited currency to purchase a ship. Well, if there was no money, that wouldn't be possible, for example. Another episode, there's a pile of jewels, and Kirk, in theory, actually said this would be worth a fortune. So again, that wouldn't make any sense if there was no money. It seems like it is very hard to run an economy, even a fictional one, without the use of money in some form or another.
Of course, enter the Ferengi, a race of aliens that have capitalism dialed up to 11. It's meant to be sort of satire, but here's a race that's always chasing profit, isn't it?
Oh, absolutely.
Is the Federation's money-free society a true economic utopia?
So they've got a few hundred rules that govern our society and they're all about making money. So the things like employees are the rungs on the ladder of success. Never hesitate to step on them.
So walk me through this behavioral and other kind of economics that I definitely listened and definitely know what it is. Why is Spock such a good example as like this straight, rational man?
Because he has no emotions, or at least he suppresses his emotions, and really claims to be making all these decisions purely on logic, so not with any emotion, not really taking into account how other people are affected, looking after his own sort of self-interest. So it's what economists sometimes call homo economicus, this perfectly rational, self-interested, patient person person who makes the best decisions they can and therefore doesn't regret them. And so it's very much unlike what other people are like, what Bones is like, what Kirk's like, which is much more similar to what you and I are like.
So Quark, who's a Ferengi in one of my favorite series, Deep Space Nine, he's a bar owner, but he really exploits his workers, he suppresses unions, he plays dirty.
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Chapters
5 chapters
1
What insights about economics can we learn from Star Trek?
0:02–1:39
2
How do conventional and behavioral economics differ in Star Trek's context?
1:39–3:15
3
Is the Federation's money-free society a true economic utopia?
3:15–5:48
4
What role do the Ferengi play in understanding capitalism in Star Trek?
5:48–7:17
5
How does technology in Star Trek challenge our economic perspectives?
7:17–9:05
Speakers
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