Chapter 1: What is romantic indifference and why is it a concern?
The missing link between scientific journals and relationship counseling. The Last Show with David Cooper. I'm sure you've heard of love. I'm sure you've heard of hate. But what about something far more sneaky, something more dangerous, romantic indifference? When the spark between you and your partner disappears, if you get bored, if you withdraw, what happens to intimacy?
And what of that wandering eye? Well, I am here with someone who's done research on romantic indifference. Her name is Myrna Jurich, and she's a social psychology researcher at the Free University Amsterdam. Myrna, welcome to the program.
Hi, thank you so much for having me.
You know, when people talk about troubled relationships, we usually talk about the big emotions like fighting, jealousy, heartbreak, cheating. But I like that you looked at something maybe a little more sinister, indifference. What does indifference look like in a relationship day to day?
Yeah, totally. This was indeed the starting point of the project. It's also reflected in the scientific literature as well that we tend to kind of study really these strong emotional experiences in relationships. So, you know, we tend to think about, okay, what happens when people have positive feelings towards their partners? What happens when they have negative feelings towards their partners?
Maybe they have simultaneously positive and negative feelings. But what has really been under-researched is indeed what if you don't have any kind of strong emotional experiences at all, which is indeed indifference. So the way that I would say it kind of looks in relationships is indeed not having a strong emotional reaction to your partner either way.
So neither a positive one or a negative one. Feeling kind of emotionally numb towards your partner is like another word I would use.
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Chapter 2: How does romantic indifference affect intimacy in relationships?
Or indeed just kind of feeling neutral basically towards this person. They don't really make you feel that much.
So what would be an interaction that would really highlight indifference in a relationship?
Yeah, I mean, honestly, kind of how it looks in the day to day is really something that we need to study more. And, you know, the studies that we've done so far has really only scratched the surface. So the way we've studied it up to now has been more kind of in terms of longer term relationship processes. So when, you know, people kind of feel it.
in their relationship over kind of longer periods of time basically and report on it. But what it looks like in a day-to-day kind of interaction is something that I'm honestly also fascinated by and something that we really need to do more research to kind of understand. What's possible is that, you know, some people are maybe even on a day-to-day not really showing or kind of
engaging in positive or negative behaviors towards their partner they're just kind of withdrawn and distant and that could be for example a situation which you know people just don't have a strong emotional reaction just kind of checked out not curious not talking much not feeling much at all just kind of shell of a relationship yeah in what ways could that be more dangerous than let's say flat-out conflict
I mean, I think, you know, so far in the literature, it's just something that hasn't really been looked at that much. It hasn't received that much attention. And I wonder if it's also something that similarly translates into how we deal with it in everyday life. You know, something that we may be
are not aware, you know, could be something really risky in relationships and something that down the line could lead to really negative consequences. So it might kind of almost fly under the radar as, you know, something potentially alarming. You know, people might just not pick up on it in that way, not consider it, you know, as risky.
So let's talk about some of your studies and the stuff that you've uncovered while looking at this. Boredom, lower intimacy, attention to other people, like a wandering eye. Are these pieces of the puzzle?
Exactly. So indeed, what we're finding in these studies and kind of the picture that we see we're seeing of people who feel indifferent in their relationships is that this is an experience that is really linked to feeling unstimulated in the relationship. So people people start to feel bored in the relationship. They don't feel intimately connected with the partner.
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Chapter 3: What does indifference look like in daily interactions?
If you're feeling this way, if you shift your focus into other things, like maybe you dive into your work, you dive into hobbies, maybe you hang out with your friends more. Will that make the relationship worse? Will that make the relationship better? Does it not contribute at all?
It's actually really interesting that you mentioned this because this was another thing that we tested. So basically we were wondering, okay, you know, there are a bunch of these outlets that people might focus on to kind of get, you know, kind of fulfillment or stronger emotional reactions and enrichment in their life. And indeed we look at, you know, did people focus on work more?
Did they dedicate themselves to their hobbies? Did they focus on friends and family? Or did they start looking at alternative partners? And what we find is actually all of these other domains. So work, friends and family, hobbies, none of this are effects that we find.
So basically, we did not find any links with this, but it seems to be specifically, you know, when you are feeling romantically indifferent. So when it's linked to your romantic relationship, it's really linked to desiring alternative partners more rather than diving into your work, for example.
So it's really something unique about, you know, these romantic relationships and these emotions that we might be looking for in our life rather than, you know, just emotions in general, you know, that we might be experiencing.
Wow. I'm just relating this back to like lots of conflict in the relationship. I guess that could be perceived as a sign of still caring if there's a lot of conflict. If you're just kind of checked out, if you're just kind of feeling like, I don't know, romantically indifferent. Does that mean the relationship is over without even realizing it?
Are you halfway done or is there perhaps a way to repair the relationship?
Yeah, I mean, I think that's the big question, you know, for future research to try to kind of investigate that in maybe more long-term studies. Yeah, I think, you know, exactly what you said. One possibility is that if there is...
you know, still some emotional reaction in the relationship, like, you know, some sort of engagement with a partner, even if it is negative emotions that could, you know, still kind of signal that you are involved, you know, you're invested, you are still kind of, yeah, reacting to this person and basically kind of engaging with them in some way.
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