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Chapter 1: What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
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We have two guests with us for our first item. In a moment, we'll hear from Hazel Chew, the Deputy Leader of the Green Party, Dublin City Councillor. But first, Donal O'Keefe from the Licensed Fitness Association. Tell us about the research you've conducted, please, which suggests three out of every four people who socialise in Dublin would like to see later nightclub opening times.
Good evening, Matt. Yes, we surveyed 510 consumers in conjunction with the research agency Red Sea. It came back with overwhelming support for later trading in our capital city. Three out of four people, I believe, have offered their support for a nightclub license that will go to 4.30 a.m. That rises to eight out of 10.
for customers aged between 18 and 34 and we think it's really important now that the government delivers what it has contained in the programme for government in the sale of alcohol bill and provides for later trading in our capital city.
What is the current situation in relation to late night trading?
Well, essentially, Matt, every pub in Ireland at the weekends has the option to trade to 12.30 a.m. And then if the business is large enough and can support it and can find customers for it, they can apply for a special exemption order, which gives an additional two extra hours on a weekend night. So 12.30 a.m. becomes 2.30 a.m.
And the bulk of late bars in Dublin and across the country and nightclubs all operate on the basis of that.
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Chapter 2: What does the research say about later nightclub opening times in Dublin?
The special exemption order is ferociously expensive, €205 per night, so €32,000 a year for three nights a year. It's an insane amount of money. And, you know, the two big benefits contained in the Senate alcohol bill is that they include an annual late bar permit. So you get one license every September to do you for the year. And it provides for a new nightclub permit that would allow
Nightclubs go a number of hours later. We think the closing time should be 4.30 and that gives a sequence that traditional bars close at 12.30 a.m., late bars at 2.30 a.m. and nightclubs at 4.30 a.m.
We think that, you know, because there is correctly, which we support a high degree of conditions around nightclub permits, that there'll be a relatively small number of nightclubs and there will be a big onus on them to manage that late business properly.
Would the Gardaí be able to manage all of that, having people out in the streets in numbers till half four or five a.m. in the morning?
Well, we think the benefit of sequential closing, having the main ordinary bars closing at 12.30, late bars at 2.30 and then the nightclubs at 4.30 actually, you know, sequences the crowds. It would reduce pressure on public transport, reduce pressure on taxis, reduce pressure on fast food outlets. and allows the crowds to stream out on a kind of a longer term basis.
It also must be remembered, Matt, and it's always forgotten in these debates, that alcohol consumption is coming down and down steadily. It fell another 2% last year. We're now on a per capita basis drinking a third less alcohol than 20 years ago. Young people in particular are drinking much more moderately. And that, you know, I think means that we're mature enough as a society now to have
nightclubs going to 4.30am.
Might that not also suggest though, Donald, that we don't actually need it, that the demand isn't actually there for it. And given that we have so few nightclubs compared to previous generations, it seems to be on the basis that the younger people in particular don't want that opportunity available to them in the volumes that previous generations did.
That lies in the face of our research where 8 out of 10 customers aged between 18 and 34 want later trading. The results also show that they believe European cities across the EU have better nightlife because of later trading. We hear from our customers a lot about them travelling to nightclubs on the continent for big weekends away.
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Chapter 3: What is the current situation regarding late-night trading laws?
this government hasn't done anything more to it and we need them to change the licensing laws, we need them to increase transport and we need them to make the cities safer at night time by increasing footfall and having a night time economy. So I completely welcome the idea of the research because at the end of the day these results have been
provided time and time again over the years by different groups, like Give Us the Night, like the Nighttime Economy Task Force, like the Nightmare in Dublin City himself as well.
But yet, Hazel, the last government, not this government, the last one which the Greens were part of, had the sale of alcohol bill in 2022, which proposed that nightclubs would be able to stay open until 6am, that late bars would remain at 2.30am, excuse me, And pubs would remain at 12.30am but be allowed to open at 10.30am on Sundays. Never progressed.
You had the legislation and you didn't bring it through the Oireachtas.
We did, we did. I was on that committee, Matt, and we had many arguments with representatives of justice there who had said, yeah, yeah, we will be progressing this bill. We will be progressing this. And then when it came to it, we ourselves as a party pushed for it. And the others didn't.
And this came the problem that this government now will not be pushing forward and has not been pushing forward on that. And that's a shame because you are talking about an industry that does need support there. And it does provide for community for younger people as well as older people as well.
I have plenty of people that say to me, hey, wouldn't it be great back in the 90s where we actually have those dance spaces? It's not just about alcohol. It's about dance and music being culture, being seen as culture and dance floor is being seen as culture. which we need to recognise that other European countries recognise and we don't.
Is there not another problem as well, Hazel, though, that if you were to do this, you'd have to have an enormous amount of additional public transport available, that what has been put in in relation to buses is very limited. The likes of the Lewis and the Dart don't run after midnight. Can you have one without the other?
No, you can't. And you absolutely should have one with the other as well. And your point of having Nate Light Public Transport Service was one of the essential components and recommendations of the nighttime economy task force. I was on that subgroup and we were very clear. We needed 24 hour buses and we needed late night bus.
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