Scaling Laws: AI Safety Meet Trust & Safety with Ravi Iyer and David Sullivan

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Recorded10 Oct 2025

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David Sullivan, Executive Director of the Digital Trust & Safety Partnership, and Rayi Iyer, Managing Director of the Psychology of Technology Institute at USC’s Neely Center, join Kevin Frazier, AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas School of Law and a Senior Editor at Lawfare, to discuss the evolution of the Trust & Safety field and its relevance to ongoing conversations about how best to govern AI. They discuss the importance of thinking about the end user in regulation, debate the differences and similarities between social media and AI companions, and evaluate current policy proposals.Leo Wu provided excellent research assistance to prepare for this podcast.Read more from David:"Why we need to make safety the product to build better bots," from the World Economic Forum Centre for AI Excellence"Learning from the Past to Shape the Future of Digital Trust and Safety," in Tech Policy PressRead more from Ravi:"Ravi Iyer on How to Improve Technology Through Design," from Lawfare's Arbiters of Truth series"Regulate Design, not Speech," from the Designing Tomorrow Substack Read more from Kevin:"California in Your Chatroom: AB 1064’s Likely Constitutional Overreach," from the Cato InstituteFind Scaling Laws on the Lawfare website, and subscribe to never miss an episode.To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/lawfare-institute.Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/lawfare. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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