Chapter 1: What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
This is Interrupted by Matt Jones on NewsRadio 840 WHAS. Now, here's Matt Jones.
It is episode 31 of Interrupted by Matt Jones, and we are excited to have one of my favorite people, maybe my favorite person in sports media now. I could say outside of my crew, probably the person that I get along with the most is Tom Hart of ESPN, and I realized you hadn't been on here yet, which kind of surprised me. So thanks for joining us this week.
Happy to do it and happy to know that somehow I leapfrogged Dan Dockage for that honor.
Yeah, you are in front of Dan Dockage. Although I will say, Dan Dockage said something nice, has checked a couple times on my dad, which is nice. I saw him at the Super Bowl, and I don't think I'm speaking out of school to say this, but he came up to me and he said, I said, you know what? Thank you very much for what you said about my dad.
Chapter 2: Who is Tom Hart and what is his background in sports media?
And he goes, you know, a lot of people don't realize this, but, you know, life is more important than politics. And I was like, I feel like most people realize that. I mean, I feel like that goes without saying, I would hope, but he did have nice words.
Who is your least favorite person in media, in sports media? Who would be on your Mount Rushmore?
Well, before he said that about my dad, he would have been towards the top. I now can't say that. I think my least favorite are the people that I think are frauds. I don't want to make you have to comment on this, but people I know are not true versions of themselves. So Clay Travis is probably my least favorite because I know he's full of it.
I don't know that there's anyone, I can't think, in sports. You know, the thing is, Tom, by not knowing anyone, it makes it easy. Like, you know more people than I do, so you probably dislike more people.
You're insulated. I actually remember one of the first times we had an in-depth conversation, Matt, was in Omaha at the College World Series. Yes, and Kentucky wasn't playing.
I just went as a fan.
Right. And one of the discussions we had was that you guys as a group, and maybe you specifically specifically, had this ā and this was kind of the barstool guys back in the beginning. Like, you could attack authority. Yeah. And then the more successful you get ā Much harder.
And the closer you get to the authority and the more money that comes in, you go, ooh, but that guy's a buddy of mine, or I run in those circles, and maybe I shouldn't offend. Well, for me, it's not the money.
For me, it's not the money. It's just ā Well, first of all, I had this conversation with PFT. They used to attack everybody. And now they have all those people on their show. It's harder when you meet people because you start to learn that no one's perfect. I still feel like I will attack almost anyone if I think they're a bad person.
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Chapter 3: What insights does Tom Hart share about the challenges of sports broadcasting?
it used to be a part of my life and it now is my life. I'm sure this happens with you. It is tough to every time you meet someone, they only want to talk about one aspect of your life. You know what I mean? So like I consider myself a multifaceted person, but most people only want to talk to me about a facet that is important to me, but is not the most important thing to me. And so I,
That part has been an adjustment that has probably made me ā I can only have people say to me so much, I mean, how do you think the Cats are going to do this year? It's like ā I mean, I talk about it every day.
Maybe that's a buffer that you need, though. Maybe that's a buffer that you need. Like if some stranger comes up to you in the Kroger produce aisle, if you ever spend time there, and they start talking about, let's say, politics, and they're on the totally opposite side. Because honestly, when you meet people ā in public, they generally want to tell you just what they feel.
Asking about Kentucky basketball is different. Yes, and I'm okay with that. But they usually ask just to tell you their opinion.
I totally agree. I learned the best trait you can have, I think, to make friends is a trait that I was really bad at for a long time, which is like wanting to hear other people's opinions because I didn't really want to hear anyone's opinion. But people ā I realized like a few years ā probably around COVID ā Like most people, no one ever asks what they think about anything. Right. Right.
And so if you take a genuine interest in someone and their opinion, they actually, it really is meaningful to them. And I realized that during COVID because I had all these people, Tom, writing me and you listen to our show. So, you know, like I had all these people writing me with very deep emotional things they were writing and I'm a stranger and I started to occur to me like,
These people are lonely. And if I am kind back to them, that's valuable. And I did that a lot. And it helped me some during that. And I agree with you. I think that's a good lesson. You're great at this. You're a great listener. I watch you do that with people.
Well, it is sometimes hard. But I'd like to tell myself, like, when I'm in ā Starkville or Lexington or Athens, it helps me get a feel for the place that I'm in for that day or for those three days. And I think that's one of my strengths is relating what it's like to be there. Because as a fan, when I'm at home, I want to feel what it's like to be at that game. I can't be there.
I'm watching it two-dimensionally on TV. Help me understand what it's like on campus, what the feeling is in the building. What were the nerves like before the game?
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Chapter 4: How does Tom Hart view the evolution of college sports commentary?
We all know when you walk into a big game, whether you get there five minutes before tip or two and a half hours, you can feel that nervous energy in the building and that electricity. God, that was my favorite feeling as a fan, right? You walk in. I used to go to games at Hearn Center at Mizzou. It was an old arena. It was really steep. It was loud.
And I remember specifically being there for... It had to have been a big Monday game. I know it was a weeknight game.
This was at Missouri, right? Is this Missouri?
This was at Missouri. Yeah. Yeah. And the concourse was closed off, so you had to walk through the bombatorium to get to the arena. And I just remember I was probably... middle school, walking through the concourse, and you could feel the band playing from the concourse. Yeah, yeah, I know what you're talking about, yeah.
Like, this is big, like, this place is buzzing, and it was probably 30 minutes for a tip, and I'll never forget that feeling, and I love it when I get that feeling, you know, when I go into work, like,
That's Rupp Arena at its best. And it happens a handful of times a year. Nobody understands the implications of a big game like Kentucky fans. And so even though we lost the 45 minutes before Cal's first game back in Rupp. I will always remember the emotion and just what was happening in that bill and how it felt. And I like that is a really, really cool thing. That's what sports gives you.
But see, you can have that in places where you don't have a personal connection. So, like, when I was in South Africa, I went to a soccer game where these two massive teams were playing each other, and there was a rivalry, and I didn't even know who was what, but you still had that same feeling. It's universal. Like the, oh, this is about to be something, and I really like that.
Now, you have a big connection with Kentucky fans. I think from our friendship and from you listening to KSR, I'm sure nowhere are you more popular than with the Kentucky fan base. Would you agree with that?
Yes, but it hasn't always been that way. Before you guys probably got to know me and you and I got to know each other, I did a couple Kentucky games where I didn't get off to a great start. I think I've shared this story with you before, but... My Calipari history goes way back to his Memphis days, but my Kentucky history doesn't have that much depth.
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Chapter 5: What experiences shaped Tom Hart's perspective on play-by-play announcing?
We move on, because that's how it is.
He doesn't seem like a guy who would have strong worries about that stuff. I remember when that happened, and that was during the part that I actually was not allowed on air. And I remember watching that game, And I was watching it with my then-girlfriend in New York City because I was there, I was writing my book, and I was not allowed to be on the radio. And actually, that meant a lot.
I laugh at all the ones you do because you do them almost every game. But that one really felt like to me, you had to really want to do that because that was specifically my name. Because when you do the quarter zip thing with Billy, if somebody doesn't know, they don't even register that that's something. But it does make people feel like...
you're connected and you said you do that with other teams. I do wonder, Tom, you know, as we get closer and closer in AI and these sort of ā like everything is personalized. Your algorithm is personalized. Everything is so individually tailored to you. I would argue doing things like that maybe matters more now so that people feel like I don't want to just hear a broadcaster.
I want to hear Tom Hart because Kentucky fans, I think, would choose you to do every game. Do you agree with that? Do you think those connections to the listeners may matter more as you keep going?
Oh, I think they absolutely matter. Yeah. And your friend Ian Eagle and I talked about this. I saw him in November and we talked about the Kentucky fan base and the weight that it carries. And he brought this up just before I did. When a fan base knows who you are, this goes back to the beginning of our discussion. It's hard to be critical of someone that you know personally, right?
And if the fan base feels like they know you, which by the way, the number one thing is to make a connection. And usually that only happens in local broadcasts, right? When you're watching the Reds, you know the history of those guys and you want to listen to Barry Larkin and you
I don't, I don't want to listen to Barry Larkin. I want to listen to, I want to listen to Jeff Brantley and I want to listen to, uh, what's his name? Uh, there's a couple, but Barry Larkin, nice guy, but Barry Larkin's a bad announcer, but I'm not going to make you comment on that, but go ahead.
No, but Brantley is a great example. That would be a much better example, right? Like he, he's a guy that everybody would love to have a beer with and many probably have. Um, but what it does is if I would have made that same out of bio mistake, uh, Five years later, I'm not saying people still wouldn't been bothered by it, but I would have been given an enormous amount of grace.
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Chapter 6: What unique challenges did Tom Hart face while calling Korean baseball?
But I want to talk about part of being a play by play guys. You have to do a lot of different stuff. So I'm just sitting here thinking what I've heard you do. I've heard you do college basketball and college football. Obviously you've done a lot of stuff over the years for the Braves. So that's baseball. I know during COVID you did Korean baseball, which had to be like a wild experience.
What else have you done? And then tell me about getting ready for Korean baseball. What's that like?
I learned how to read Korean weather reports, which I'll get to in a second.
Um,
One of my first TV jobs, first opportunities was swimming and diving, which I knew nothing of. But I got to work with Hall of Famer Rowdy Gaines, and I was at least smart enough to get out of the way. I mean, Rowdy had already been doing the Olympics for years. And so, hey, here are the competitors. Here's the world record. Here they go. And I told Rowdy, I said, listen, we're watching the ā
whatever race it is. I said, I don't know swimming well enough. I can't see that moment when swimmer B gets a kick and is therefore going to catch swimmer A. I was like, I've got no chance. I mean, yeah, we could see in the 100-meter dash when you see a guy closing, but in the pool, I got no shot. I was like, please, just... I'm going to lean on you. Yeah. Yeah, take it. Take it.
You tell me, because that's your job. Also, like, tell me what I'm seeing, because I can't see it. I'm a viewer. I'm a fan in that regard. Swimming and diving, softball, all these other college offshoots. I got asked to do lacrosse one time. Well, I got asked to do the NCAA hockey postseason.
Okay.
And what I tell kids all the time who look for advice, don't ever say no to a job.
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Chapter 7: How does Tom Hart connect with the Kentucky fanbase during broadcasts?
Yeah. Yeah. And and ESPN at the time had gone to a lot of its announcers, a lot of its talent and said, hey, we want you to take a pay cut.
yes because we're in the middle of this you know once in a lifetime deal and everybody's losing money and uh they didn't ask me to take a pay cut luckily i've made so little that they didn't that's the way this way to be at espn i'm there too i don't remember i we've gone to visit uh my in-laws and we're on the drive back and this particular boss called and he said hey um
Be careful how much I share here. But he was like, hey, I need guys for Korean baseball. And he goes, but. The way we're going to redo your contract and we're basically I'm going to use you for about 30 games, but we're not going to pay you for half of them. And I said, well, that doesn't make any sense. He goes, well, we're going to backfill this contract from this year and flip it over here.
And I was very honest with him. I said, I'm not sure if that's a great idea. Certainly on my behalf, I was like, let me talk to my agent about it. And he goes, you can talk to your agent all you want. Here's the deal. He goes, I've got one box of remote equipment that's going out. And if you don't say yes right now, it's going to the next guy on the list.
And by the way, I knew the next guy on the list and I knew where he stood in relation to where I stood. And this boss knew exactly the position he was putting me in.
Yeah.
Right. Because if you get leapfrogged, you're not leapfrogging that guy again. Yeah. It's done. And so I said, um, All right. Yeah. Send the box, send the box. And so once we were doing it, once I got past that frustration, um, it was amazing. And, and I never learned how to pronounce everybody's name.
The funny part is there were already guys calling the games, and I reached out to every one of them. I said, hey, help me out. But nobody got back to me. Nobody responded with, here's how you say this one. And so the day before, and there wasn't much prep to do. There was only so much information you could even find on these guys, even in the internet era.
Now, every team had, I think, two Americans on it. And so you could find plenty of information on those guys, and you would kind of lean into that. But the night before, I did all this prep for these two teams. Listen, the best way you can call a game is to have your prep done and not need it, right? Yes. Like Kentucky basketball. I can parachute in and call. Whatever. I don't need that stuff.
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Chapter 8: What lessons has Tom Hart learned from his experiences in sports commentary?
I also do love listening to him. ESPN, it only works because I found Myron. If I had anyone else, it would have been over. You know this, and I don't say this to be mean. Everyone takes themselves so damn seriously. at ESPN because it's their job.
And like, they've been like most of the people who played Tom, you know, when people played, they can't laugh at themselves unless they were like, not good. Right. Right. So like Dan Olofsky was great. Cause he wasn't that great. So you could laugh at himself. But the dudes that are good, you know this, they take themselves seriously, right? Don't they?
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You are going to be amazed at this parallel, but we had a college basketball seminar years ago. It was the year the Cubs won the World Series. And your best friend, Dan Dockage, was up late watching the Cubs. And I remember specifically, we're all at the hotel bar in the Doubletree, and they won it in seven, right? And I think it must have been game seven.
And he came in to watch the game, and he thought he was going to be watching the game with a bunch of baseball fanatics. But reality is... We might be college basketball announcers, but generally most people in the room are just casual baseball fans. He got mad. He told everybody to screw off. He bought a six-pack. He went up to his hotel room. He goes, I got to watch my Cubs.
I can't have these distractions. Fast forward to the next day, and he was a little foggy, but I'll never forget the message that he gave. We split up into these breakout groups, and everyone's talking among themselves, play-by-play guys over here, analysts over there, reporters over there. And at some point, I wasn't at the table, but at some point, he said exactly what you're saying.
He said, you guys take yourselves too seriously. Yeah, I agree. This is about entertainment. Yes. We've got to entertain. We can't just talk ball screens off. And he called people out, maybe not by name, but certainly by eye contact. And there were some people in the room that got very uncomfortable and it was Dan didn't care how uncomfortable it was, but he delivered a message.
And I think I think it's what makes Herb Street great at what he does. Like he doesn't have to. And he's great regardless. But he doesn't have to be dialed in to every analytical trend. But he can tell you how this backfield matches up with that backfield, matches up with that backfield, and talk in generalities and entertain you and keep the ball moving. And he's a fan too. Let's go further.
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