Paul Goldsmith: Public Services Minister on redundancy costs of cutting public sector jobs
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What are the projected savings and redundancy costs of cutting 1,000 public sector jobs?
So some numbers associated with the reduction in the size of the public service. A newly released briefing shows for every 1,000 jobs cut, the salary savings are $103 million a year, but then the average redundancy is $52,000. So the union arc's up, saying the savings are not as great as claimed. Now, Paul Goldsmith is the Minister for the Public Service. He's back with us. Good morning to you. Good morning, Mike. That average of $52,000, does that indicate that the people you're laying off have got a fairly decent salary and a good deal in terms of redundancy, and they've probably been there a long time?
How does the government explain the one‑off $52,000 redundancy payment and its impact on long‑term savings?
Well, yes, but of course not everybody gets redundancy. People will leave through attrition and various other means as well. But yes, there is that one-off payment. But of course, the obvious point is that if you reduce the number over a long period of time, the saving comes every year and grows. Exactly. So the
$52,000 is just a once-off and that's the end of that. And then the benefit comes in year two, three, four, et al.? ?
Yes. And, you know, the reality is the previous six years under Labour, there was a hiring spree went from 47,000 to 65.
Why has the public service workforce not fallen substantially despite the cuts, and what role do correction officers play?
And we're trying to get that back to a reasonable limit. Of course, it's much easier to hire people like MAD than it is to reduce numbers. And so we've been going about it in a careful manner. But we've set a goal to get back to 55 in three years time. which would be back to his sort of historic norms.
Have you have you done as much as you think you should have in this first term, given the talk versus the reality might not be seen as the same thing?
Yeah, well, we had look, we had compounding things in the sense that we have reduced numbers, but at the same time, we've been hiring extra corrections officers, for example, because we've been putting more people in prison, frankly, because we want to and improve law and order. And there's a whole bunch of things going on there. So we haven't reduced it substantially over the last three years. But we do need to keep going further. There's no question about that.
What concerns does the minister have about union activism and public servants campaigning against the government?
Of course, the alternative is if Labour had stayed in power, it wouldn't be 65, it would be 75 or 80. They would have just kept on growing and we would have been in a terrible mess.
Are you worried about the level of union angst at the moment in this campaign? And I cite last week as a good example, handing out anti-government. I mean, is that legit? Can you be in the public service and campaign actively against the government of the day?
Well, I mean, I've made that point to them. They've told me that's only the second time in the last 20 or 30 years that they have actively campaigned against the government.
How does the minister justify the current staffing levels and outline the plan to return to historic workforce norms?
So it's not something they do every time. And yeah, I'll make the obvious point that more than a majority of public servants are members of the PSA and they're actively campaigning to change the government, which is not, I don't think, I think it sends a real negative signal and it reinforces the prejudice that many people have that the public service sometimes isn't supportive of centre-right governments. But so I've made that point to them and we box on because we've obviously got work to do and we don't muck around.
Good on you. That's the talk. Paul Goldsmith, Minister for the Public
Service.
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Chapters
5 chapters
1
What are the projected savings and redundancy costs of cutting 1,000 public sector jobs?
0:00–0:28
2
How does the government explain the one‑off $52,000 redundancy payment and its impact on long‑term savings?
0:28–1:03
3
Why has the public service workforce not fallen substantially despite the cuts, and what role do correction officers play?
1:03–1:52
4
What concerns does the minister have about union activism and public servants campaigning against the government?
1:52–2:22
5
How does the minister justify the current staffing levels and outline the plan to return to historic workforce norms?
2:22–3:06
Speakers
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