On this episode of THE MODERN MEXICO PODCAST host Nathaniel Parish Flannery talks to Noah Hurowitz, author of the book EL CHAPO: THE UNTOLD STORY OF THE WORLD'S MOST INFAMOUS DRUG LORD. "El Chapo could operate without any true fear of being captured. This undercuts the way El Chapo is seen in popular media. He [is] often likened to outlaw figures [such as] Robin Hood. But, I don’t know how accurate that is because the role of someone like El Chapo was not some cops and robbers dynamic. The drug trade and the modern Mexican state developed together and intertwined with one another. Drug traffickers [historically] had strong links with local political bosses who ensured a level of stability," Hurowitz says. Parish Flannery mentions recent trends in carjacking, homicides, and cargo truck hijacking in Sinaloa and also talks about his recent visit to Sinaloa to participate in an amateur cycling race between Culiacan and Badiraguato, two of El Chapo's former home bases. "I recently visited the most exclusive cemetery in Culiacan– the Jardines del Humaya. Something that really stands out is that BOTH powerful narcos and local elite business owners are buried there. The families have built these incredibly ornate shrines which cost hundreds of thousands of dollars. Some have Roman columns and look like mini Ivy League university buildings. Others are hyper modern and made from glass and steel. When you are inside the cemetery you may see well-dressed, wealthy locals visiting the graves of deceased family members. You really can’t tell who is a narco and who is an empresario," Parish Flannery says. Regarding recent allegations from ProPublica and The New York Times that people working with Mexico's President Lopez Obrador accepted drug money from the Sinaloa Cartel, Hurowitz says: "I think it’s absolutely credible. I find it very believable that members of AMLO’s party potentially received bribes from El Chapo and Los Chapitos and other organized crime networks. Bribery is endemic in Mexico and it would not surprise me if members of government even at the highest level are on the take. [Lopez Obrador] has insisted that fentanyl is not being produced in Sinaloa which is absurd. I’ve seen it myself. I’ve been to a drug lab in Sinaloa where fentanyl was being manufactured." Asked for one word to describe El Chapo's lasting legacy in Sinaloa, Hurowitz picks "nostalgia." "The period [when El Chapo] held power in Sinaloa was one of economic development. Communities in the mountains have been suffering. The illegal market for marijuana has collapsed. There is a lot of joblessness in the mountains. Many people I spoke to [had] a certain nostalgia about El Chapo as this old school guy from the mountains who treated people right," he says.

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“What did the council decide on item 42?” — answered with the speaker and the moment.

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