Kaitlan Collins was only a couple years out of college when she became a White House correspondent for Tucker Carlson’s the Daily Caller. Collins stayed in the White House when she went over to CNN during Donald Trump’s first term, and she returned for his second. Trump has made his disdain for CNN clear—and he’s not a big fan of Collins, either. At one point during Trump’s first term, she was barred from a press conference; he called her a “nasty person” during a Presidential campaign interview. There’s never been a White House so overtly hostile to the press than the second Trump Administration, penalizing news organizations for not conforming to the President’s wishes. But, as Collins tells the staff writer Clare Malone, she believes that Trump is “someone who seeks the validation of the press as much as he criticizes them publicly. And so, you know, it doesn’t really bother me when he gets upset at my question.”
Chapter 1: Who is Kaitlan Collins and what is her role?
Kaitlyn Collins was only a couple years out of college when she became White House correspondent for The Daily Caller, the news and opinion site co-founded by Tucker Carlson. Professionally, she's pretty much only known the feverish Trump media environment. Collins went over to CNN during Trump's first term, and she's returned to the White House for his second term.
Now, Trump, of course, disdains CNN, and he's not a big fan of Caitlin Collins.
Can I ask you a question? No, not CNN, please. Go ahead. The White House has not responded. I told you. CNN is fake news. Don't talk to me. Go ahead, please.
But he says he was retaliated against. He called her nasty, and at one point, she was barred from a press conference. We've never had a White House so openly hostile to the press as we do now. And how journalists can actually report in this environment is something I want to talk about with Caitlin Collins. We spoke last week.
So Caitlin, you've said before that you have to get up before the tweets. And I'm kind of curious, you have essentially two jobs. What are all of the things that you're reading first thing in the morning to help you prep for a day at the White House?
There's just so much to look through with Trump because he doesn't really sleep that much. You know, you wake up to a Truth Social post from him about how he's voiding all the pardons that President Biden issued. I do look at Truth Social as one of my first stops just to see what he has said. Then I'll look at my email.
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Chapter 2: How has Trump's relationship with the press changed?
CNN gets a ton of overnight email because we have so many international alerts. But the benefit of being on TV until 10 p.m. Eastern is... You know, there's not a ton that I miss overnight anymore, like before there used to be. But because I work so late that I don't really miss that much, if that makes sense.
Yeah, I was going to ask you what the biggest difference is reporting wise between the first Trump administration and the second Trump administration.
A lot of the staff is actually quite similar. There's massive changes in the staff, but a lot of the core staff around him are the same people that have been around him for the last four years. Trump himself, though, is unchanged in the sense of his schedule and how he operates.
And so I think if you've covered it round one, it's not that it's any less chaotic or less busy, but you're just kind of more adjusted to it. Doing the chief White House correspondent job and doing my show... knock on wood, has not actually been that much of a stretch for me because they're so intertwined. But I think it's because I know how Trump operates.
And, you know, he doesn't really do much in the morning. Maybe he'll be posting, but he's not doing a lot of meetings or press conferences or anything. And then in the afternoons, it can be quite busy. And you could be going in there for a 45-minute press conference And you've really got to be paying attention to what's the headline here.
So there's so much that's different, but so much that it is incredibly similar to round one.
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Chapter 3: What challenges do journalists face in the current political climate?
The White House briefing room in general, the back and forths, like, you know, an interaction between you and Carolyn Leavitt became, you know... A New York Post story, right? You know, an exchange between CNN's Caitlin Collins and Carolyn Leavitt. There is a confrontational edge to how she interacts with you, interacts with other reporters. Here's a clip from the other day.
That would propose perhaps criminal or illegal behavior if staff members were signing the President of the United States autograph without his consent. But was he aware of his signature being used on every single pardon? That's a question you should ask the Biden White House.
Is there any evidence on that that he wasn't aware of it?
Chapter 4: How does Kaitlan prepare for a day at the White House?
You're a reporter. You should find out.
I'm curious how you think about strategically handling that kind of frisson between you and the White House press secretary.
If you watch the interaction, it's not as sensational as the New York Post makes it seem. I think they just do that for clicks. Two, I think that there's a job to do for each of us in terms of her job is to spin for her boss. I mean, people will disagree if you're the press secretary, what your role is. But as a Trump spokesperson, that is your job. And my job is to ask questions and get answers.
And there's always a natural tension between the press secretary for anyone and the press that covers them. And Trump watches these briefings really closely. He handed Caroline Lovett, had someone pass her a note in the middle of a briefing the other day, and asked her to highlight a pole. And that was while she was out at the podium. And so that was notable.
But I think the third thing is, and this has always been my mantra kind of since round one, it's not about me. And if you let them make it about you, I think you're losing. And so whenever I'm in there... I'm not trying to get in an argument or engage in some kind of fight. You know, I'm going to ask my questions and I'm going to be persistent.
And so I think that's always important to remember is that, you know, it's not about you.
But I'm curious if from first term to second term, I guess the social media trickle down feels at all different when it comes back to you, right? The way that those clips are aggregated out. Does that tangibly feel different to you?
Being on Twitter is a vastly different environment than it was before. when I was covering Trump eight years ago. And eight years ago, I found it to be more useful in terms of disagreement and engagement. That's not the case anymore, really. It's certainly much more shifted to the right. And so certainly the response I see on there is way different now than it was eight years ago.
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Chapter 5: What is the difference between the first and second Trump administrations?
I know everyone says this, but it truly is not the real world because I'll see one narrative on there and then I'll be out living my life and talking to sources or random people in the airports and, you know, just anywhere. And it's a completely different view and lens. It's really remarkable, actually.
Yeah.
Threads is about middle school teachers being like, let me tell you a story about the worst student I ever had.
Or it's like tips on cooking or something. I know. There's such different social media environments. But you do see how people can have their beliefs reinforced so easily by going online and choosing their platform. My dad will see things on Facebook about me and then call me to ask if it's true sometimes. Yeah. And it's, you know, it's just so funny. My dad's like, I saw this.
And, you know, it just shows you that people can choose their own narratives.
Yeah. Do you think the majority of Americans have an accurate understanding of politics based on the news they consume?
I can see completely different worldviews of something. The Zelensky meeting is a really good example. I was in the Oval Office for that because CNN was the pool that day. And we knew it would be tense. We knew it would be noteworthy. We had no idea that it was going to be like that. I mean, in that room, a pin could have dropped and no one was saying a word except the three of them.
And then hearing how other people saw it, either people who were on the left or not in touch with the news or on the right, it was remarkable just to see how people's views of it were from what they saw on social media, in the news, in the headlines, and whatnot.
The White House press pool and the way it's changed, obviously, the White House is now deciding who can travel with the pool. How has that changed how press briefings are, how even just like being in the pool is?
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Chapter 6: How does social media influence political narratives?
We reserve the right to decide who gets to go into the Oval Office. And you all have credentials to be here, including the Associated Press, who is in this briefing room today.
But isn't it retaliatory in nature, is the argument, because the reason that the AP was barred, which they said was because they're not using the phrase Gulf of America, they're using Gulf of Mexico in line with their standards.
And so the question here is, is this setting a precedent that this White House will retaliate against reporters who don't use the language that you guys believe reporters should use? And how does that align with the First Amendment commitment that you were just talking about? I was in the briefing yesterday and the Associated Press reporter who was in there got a question.
And so they're not, it's not a complete block on them. The question is really whether or not the White House has changed since then to where they now control the pool. That is the question here in terms of whether or not they are ultimately successful here.
And you've been pretty involved with that organization, right? The WHCA.
I was the president, technically. Okay, you were. It is a serious organization, and they don't play favorites. And when I ran for president, you run, it's a three-year term. You know, I had to run a really competitive race. And what you do as part of that race that actually was really beneficial to me was you have to call hundreds of members of the WHCA and solicit their views, get their feedback.
What do they not like? What do they like? It's a real race. I have like a newfound respect for politicians, which I don't generally say after running it because it was really difficult. And so this would have been my year to be the president. I moved to New York for two years, and so I had to relinquish the role, unfortunately. But the WHCA is not playing favorites or not blocking certain outlets.
They just take it really seriously because the jobs of being in the pool are very serious. You could be in the pool on a day like 9-11. You could be in the pool on a day that there's an attempted assassination.
I mean, these are not, and a lot of the days it's boring and you're just kind of hanging out in a van, but you have to be ready for those moments and you have to be ready to deliver for those moments. the rest of the press corps and the American people in that front. And so it's an incredibly serious position. It's not just you're getting time in the Oval Office.
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Chapter 7: What is the role of the White House Correspondents Association?
But I think you have to do it because some people are watching and they don't know that that's not true. And you've got to correct that and make sure that you're adhering to that. Yeah.
You hosted a CNN town hall with Trump during his reelection campaign. This was in 2023. And there's a moment when he calls you a nasty person.
The question that investigators have, I think, is why you held on to those documents when you knew the federal government was seeking them and then had given you a subpoena to return them. Are you ready?
Are you ready? Can I talk?
Yeah, what's the answer?
Do you mind?
I would like for you to answer the question. Okay, it's very simple to answer. That's why I asked it.
It's very simple. You're a nasty person, I'll tell you that.
I'm curious for your reaction in that moment, both as a person that's happening to you and also as a person who's hosting a live television program.
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Chapter 8: How does Kaitlan handle fact-checking during interviews?
This is the New Yorker Radio Hour. I'm Claire Malone, sitting in today for David Remnick. I've been speaking with Caitlin Collins. Collins is the host of CNN's nightly program, The Source, and she's CNN's chief White House correspondent, too. When Collins was hired at CNN, the news attracted some attention.
She was only 25 at the time, and she had been covering the White House for The Daily Caller, the news and opinion site co-founded by Tucker Carlson. It was described as a conservative answer to The Huffington Post. You got your start at Tucker Carlson's new site, The Daily Caller. How were you imagining your career at that time?
I certainly did not think that it would be where it is now. Someone actually sent me a picture the other day from, like, 2016 when we were in The Daily Caller newsroom. And it was just so funny to go back and look at, like, one, I just look so young, but also just to think of all the things that I've...
reported on and experienced since then and grown so much as a reporter is remarkable to look at. And it's around this time, eight years ago, that I got my job at CNN. So I'm also kind of more reflective in that sense as well. But also I was on the campaign trail in 2016 with The Daily Caller and we would go out.
Tucker thought it was important for us to go to caucuses and primaries and to kind of see all that stuff up close, which I had never done before. And so I think I was 24 or 23 at the time.
And so that was actually really helpful to me because when I started covering Trump, I had just a better understanding of that orbit around him and the people that were surrounding themselves with him now and what that looked like. And it actually has been really beneficial to me, I think, as I've been covering him for the last eight years. Yeah.
The right-wing ecosystem in media is in some ways so much more hardcore and hard right than it was 10 years ago. And Tucker, in particular, I think exemplifies that. I'm sort of curious what you make of his career arc over the past decade.
Well, on just the right in general, I think they're emboldened by Trump's win. Tucker obviously was running the Daily Caller when I was there.
He worked at Fox, but he didn't have a primetime show and wasn't the king of cable as he became and had TV that the White House felt was must-see television because whatever he was talking about that night in his monologue, Trump would likely be talking about the next day. That's what I heard from senior staff in the White House the last time.
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