Rahm Emanuel Says Israel’s Path Is “Not Sustainable Politically”
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The New Yorker Radio Hour is a co-production of WNYC and The New Yorker.
Welcome to The New Yorker Radio Hour. I'm David Remnick. Rahm Emanuel is by now a Democratic Party elder. As a fundraiser, he helped bring Bill Clinton to power. And in the Clinton White House, Emanuel was instrumental in the 1994 crime bill and NAFTA and much else. Some of those positions turned out to be deeply unpopular in the Democratic Party, but Barack Obama made Emanuel his chief of staff. Emmanuel is a combative centrist in the party, someone who prizes winning over ideology, putting points on the board, he once called it. So it's remarkable in a way that Emmanuel just gave a blistering speech to an audience in Israel on the direction that Benjamin Netanyahu has taken that country in recent years.
Emanuel said that Israel's devastating war in Gaza and the settler violence in the West Bank, as well as Netanyahu's role in promoting the current war in Iran, is pushing Israel toward pariah status in many corners of the globe. Emanuel argues that the U.S. government should no longer reflexively lend Israel military support, as it has for so many decades. And this is a man whose father was born in Jerusalem and fought in the 1948 War of Independence.
Why did Rahm Emanuel call Israel’s current path “not sustainable politically”?
Rahm Emanuel is making no bones about it. He's contemplating a run for the presidency. And we spoke this past week. Rahm, I was just in Israel for a long reporting trip, and while I was there... You show up and you delivered some pretty bitter medicine to the Israelis. You gave a speech at Tel Aviv University. You basically said to Israelis, you don't have a problem with the Democratic Party. You have a problem with America. What was your message that you wanted to bring to Israelis? And why did you bring it? Why now?
You're a small country and an important ally. So let's step back. Somebody spent time as ambassador to Japan. Japan's quite popular. It's a long pole of America's Indo-Pacific policy. NATO enjoys not only bipartisan support in the House and Senate, but bipartisan support in the United States is above, I think the last time I saw, 57, 58% support. You're the one ally with unbelievable degradation. Its numbers are 32% support, used to be 64%. And among kids 30 or younger, my own three children's generation, you're in the low 20s, sometimes high teens. In 22 years, the country that my father fought for its existence and my uncle, who the family's named after, will be 100. We just celebrated 250 years. It's not sustainable politically.
You've decided that your military power isn't a tool, but is your national security toolbox. And to you, every security challenge is a nail. Israel has more Nobel science winners than any other country on a per capita basis. Yet those scientists can't go to international conferences and join on research papers.
And many of them may leave if Netanyahu wins the election again.
Yes, I've met with the CEO of a top, top, top cybersecurity firm. He said if the government wins again, people will already leave. Many companies today that are Israeli-based, Israeli-funded, are setting up their companies outside the state of Israel.
Did you find that Israelis understand that this is not an ideologically narrow feeling? This ranges from J.D. Vance to Zoran Mamdani, and now you, who I think can be described as a centrist Democrat.
Oh, I am. I laid out a 23-state solution that is actually a variation of the Arab League's proposal that would give Israel 21 countries with full diplomatic relations in the region to an economic strategy that also breaks out of its isolation and dependence on Europe, but makes it, both of them, heads and tails, makes Israel a member of the Middle East, a full participant in the Middle East, rather than standing apart from the Middle East.
But part of your message, part of your message, Ron, was that unconditional support from the U.S. has to stop. It has to be conditional. It has to change. Now, this is not a recent problem or a recent idea. You've worked for the Clinton administration and then later for the Obama administration.
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Chapters
5 chapters
1
What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
0:02–1:24
2
Why did Rahm Emanuel call Israel’s current path “not sustainable politically”?
1:24–5:34
3
How does Emanuel argue U.S. military support for Israel should change?
5:34–18:27
4
What is Rahm Emanuel’s “twenty‑three‑state solution” for the Middle East?
18:27–30:24
5
How does Emanuel assess Israel’s prosecution of the war in Gaza and its consequences?
30:24–36:54
Speakers
4 identifiedMore from The New Yorker Radio Hour
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