Chapter 1: What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
This is a Global Player original podcast.
Keir Starmer has defied his critics and told them he's going nowhere. Is that stubbornness or is it bravery?
His colleagues believe that he is the instability, that his lack of politics, his lack of direction... is what is causing the lack of authority for Labour to govern.
Chapter 2: Why is Keir Starmer defying calls to resign?
Does he feel less like Labour has left the nation of the psychodrama? Everyone knows that a lot of the people who have called on him to go are basically Wes's people. Streeting has pulled the lever. Now or never, is he going to go for it? What happens now?
The tone it feels has shifted even throughout the morning. I mean, I also think, I think Darren Jones had a really different... Where's Streeting? Where's Streeting? Did you call on Starmer to resign? And here we have Lisa Nandy.
Where's Streeting is being asked for comment. Where's Streeting has said nothing for days. So is West Streeting at the centre of whatever movement is currently going on? And is the Prime Minister waiting for him to challenge?
Prime Minister told his Cabinet colleagues this morning, in no uncertain terms, that he is going nowhere. Has Keir Starmer faced down his critics? Welcome to The News Agents. The News Agents.
It's Maitlis.
It's Lewis. And we're recording this at about two o'clock in the afternoon. So by definition.
Fools that we are.
Fools that we are. Turns out podcast isn't absolutely ideal for rolling news. Nonetheless, a lot of that has happened since we were last with you. And doubtless a lot is going to happen next as well.
So where we are as of right now is that the prime minister, the thing that we've really learned since we last spoke to you was that there was a strong possibility that the prime minister would respond to the 80 or so MPs who have called on him at some point, not all saying right now, but at some point to go to set out a timetable who say they no longer have confidence in him.
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Chapter 3: What impact does Jess Phillips' resignation have on Starmer's leadership?
doesn't usually remove its leaders or even try and remove its leaders with kind of direct challenge. And you're absolutely right, Emily. I think the defining characteristic at the moment, it's very clear what Starmer is doing. He's basically saying, in particular to West Streeting, because everyone knows that a lot of the people who have called on him to go so far or who have resigned, not all,
are basically Wes's people. And so the suspicion within the cabinet, it's more than the suspicion really, is that this is basically part of a... Streeting has pulled the lever. We were saying yesterday, it's now or never. Is he going to go for it? He is going for it up to a point.
He's getting his people to resign bit by bit to inflict maximum damage, to do that and to try and remove the prime minister and have a contest before Burnham can get back into parliament. He's clearly decided to make that decision. What Starmer has clearly decided to do today is to say, OK, you're doing that. Well, face me down. Face me down.
And he's challenging Streeting to challenge him to basically go over the top himself, something that clearly Streeting would prefer not to do. He'd rather inflict on Starmer death by a thousand cuts via all of these resignations. Streeting, therefore, has got a decision to make this afternoon. And my understanding is, is that when I said that...
you know, ministers, including Streeting, try to get a meeting with Starmer immediately after Cabinet, my understanding, as of now at about two o'clock, is that various different ministers are securing meetings and have insisted on going to see the Prime Minister this afternoon.
So Keir Starmer did not want to have that conversation first thing this morning, but one way or another, it is being imposed upon him. And I would just say this, like, there's a lot of... And I kind of understand it to some extent. There's a lot of, like, criticism, particularly online, about the media on days like today, which is like, is this all a sort of frothy Westminster media concoction?
And don't get me wrong, I'm the first one to have some criticisms about the way, you know, the media, the lobby cover politics. And sometimes I get the kind of, like, excitement soap opera thing can be a bit trying. But the media has not created this story.
If we're zooming back now, and Jess Phillips summed it up, if we're just zooming back for a second and asking, why is the prime minister in this position? It's not fundamentally because the media have decided to try and get him out.
The reason the prime minister is in this position, and the Jess Phillips letter summed it up very well, is that lots of his own colleagues from cabinet level down have concluded that he is not capable of doing this job. And what is unusual about this as a kind of putsch, is that normally if this were to occur in any governing party, it would kind of be factional.
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Chapter 4: How is the Labour Party responding to Starmer's leadership challenges?
We don't know where he wants to lead us. And that, if you're asking me exactly to sum up or distill why we've ended up in this situation, it is because of that, is the sense of complete rudderlessness from across the factions and a sense that Starmer politically doesn't have the chops to lead them out of this situation.
Yeah. And Jess Phillips' letter really made that case very starkly. I'll read you one line. She says,
to that exact point in other words the Jess Phillips style of of governing really or of of campaigning has been tell people what you feel show them your passion show them you care show them where it really hurts and then do something about it and back to the sticking plaster position Starmer basically sort of wants things to be calm you know sort of
I mean, this is the point of incrementalism, isn't it? You won't see me moving, you know, and people have said, we don't see you moving and we don't see any choice. Look, I think to the factualism point, this is where it gets really interesting because Wes Streeting, you know, as you've described, is in a sort of, he's in a choose your own adventure children's book now, right, where...
Go to page 56. Go to page 56. Do you launch your bid to be prime minister? Go to page 56. But you might lose your job forever and be out of government. Game over. Or do you show your loyalty, turn to page 37, but risk ceding ground to Andy Burnham? You can see that for West Streeting, everything is resting on it.
And he wants to be the loyal sort of foot soldier, the person who steps up rather than the person who wields the knife. But just last night, Alex Wickham from Bloomberg was reporting this kind of threat, essentially, on the part of what he calls the soft left, that if Wes Streeting did trigger a leadership context, he would not be safe. And this is the text of the email he got sent.
If Wes thinks he can pull off some kind of stitch up to avoid a fair process that will have no legitimacy, even if he briefly ends up in office, we would challenge him at the first opportunity. he'd be lucky to outlast a lettuce. So it's all very well saying that Starmer doesn't represent a factionalism.
But make no mistake, as soon as Starmer is not in the picture, yes, the gloves are off and it looks really ugly. And actually, it's quite depressing, actually. As soon as you stand back, you realise that you are in a place where... There is the potential for the party to absolutely pull themselves apart by the roots.
And I think that also explains why Starmer is looking out now and saying they are readying the mall. They are getting the prince's carriage ready. They are getting Black Rod and all the kind of, you know, pomp and circumstance ready for my speech tomorrow. The king will deliver my speech.
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Chapter 5: What role does West Streeting play in the current political turmoil?
Or if they do answer, it's always just a short one word, you know, a statement of loyalty or whatever. They walk past without stopping. They don't go over to the huddle. Are you supporting the Prime Minister? Very much. Thumbs up. Environment Secretary? Absolutely. But this time, after Cabinet, a selection of different Cabinet ministers, including, of course, the Prime Minister.
If the Prime Minister has... Has a Nadine Dorries. I think we can say it is Steve Reid and the housing secretary. And he came out following with a series of his colleagues, very unusually after cabinet, going to speak to directly in a short series of interviews, speak to the press and give their view about what just happened in cabinet. Highly unusual. Listen to this.
Prime Minister has my full support. The Labour Party has a process for triggering a leadership election. That has not happened. So we all intend to get on with our jobs. And that's what I'm going to do.
So that's Steve Reid. And he was followed by Pat McFadden. He's followed by the science secretary, Liz Kendall. He's founded by the leader of the House of Lords, Jenny Chapman.
All stalwart allies, including actually intriguingly as well, Peter Kyle as well, who the business secretary who came out, who's quite a close ally actually of West Street and surprised people by coming out about the prime minister. Here he is.
And what did everyone say when Keir Starmer said the leadership race had not been triggered?
Well, it's the fact. We've had a very purposeful cabinet meeting talking about the big issues facing our economy and society. Nothing has been triggered. I'm about to go off to Brussels to continue working with Brussels to deepen the relationship, to benefit Britain. We are working hard on the big issues that are facing the country, and Keir is showing really steadfast leadership.
What all those comments after cabinet had in common was that they told us that the meeting in cabinet was not about the leadership context, not about the 80. It was about the war in Iran. It was about the cost of living. It was about energy. And as you've heard, they all want to get on with the job. And I think that speaks to two things.
One, that Keir Starmer clearly opened that meeting by saying, right, we're not talking about that. We've got to get on and govern. And there is probably an imperative for those round the cabinet table. not to look like they are part of a psychodrama. So, of course, they want to say, you know, in the interest of the country, I'm still going to Brussels. I'm still looking at this.
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Chapter 6: How does Starmer's defiance affect Labour's stability?
And if there is a challenge, if somebody comes to him with a challenge... whatever, people who support them, Keir Starmer is automatically on the ballot. And he has now told sources that he thinks he can win a leadership contest. So this is the unknown. You're saying there's 80 and maybe many more who privately agree with the 80.
And Starmer is clearly thinking, well, there could be loads more who are loyal, who don't want me to go for precisely these reasons. They think that I'm halfway through a term and... Yeah, it's all gone to shit because that's what happens in the midterms. But I need to be given the chance to stick at it.
And there is one more theory which we're going to talk about after the break, which is that he has come to some kind of arrangement in his own mind. But it's not now.
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Good morning, I'm Nick Ferrari. It's time to get to your calls. Find out the latest news and hear every side of the story.
So just as I take responsibility for the results, I also take responsibility for delivering the change that we promised for a stronger and fairer Britain that we must build.
Now he's still toast, he's just wasting our time now. The words of two in a growing list of Labour MPs whose patience with the Prime Minister has run dry. Is there anything he said or can say to make you want him to stay? Listen on our free Global Player app or the LBC app.
LBC, leading Britain's conversation.
What I'm doing is setting out the response, the direction that we need to take, and the acknowledgement that in the world we live in now, we need a bigger response than 2024. It is a different world. And an acknowledgement that this isn't the first shock the country's been through with the Iran conflict. We've had plenty of those in the last 20 years.
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Chapter 7: What are the implications of Andy Burnham's potential candidacy?
I think they actually saw him arrive, which suggests he probably left yesterday. I mean, presumably left yesterday before he saw that Keir was defiantly staying. But I wonder if there's a world in which there is a kind of an accommodation, that Starmer realises that Andy Burnham could win a seat... And thinks, well, I'm going to buy myself six months. I'm going to have a chat.
I'm going to say, give me six months. Let me stay in the job. Let me work something out until conference or after conference. And then, you know, you do you.
Yeah, I mean, I think as I said yesterday, I think that I thought that the way that Starmer could definitely guarantee himself, buy himself some time, survival in the job is...
by in answer in that clip yesterday to will you let burnham stand again there was a play for him which was to say look um you know when we he was asked before when he tried before we had local elections coming we didn't want the distraction of a by-election then party funds would have been diverted but now those are out the way i mean look i still think it would be good if he stayed and
Fulfilled his promise to the people of Manchester. But if he wants to seek selection, if a by-election were to come up, I'm not going to stand in his way. That would have called off the Burnham dogs in Parliament. It would have given them, all those MPs who want Burnham, including members of the Cabinet, it would have given them, it would have brought them on side to Starmer.
And frankly, he would have bought himself loads of time because he would be able to say, well, you know, you've got to have a by-election. You've got to move the writ for a by-election. That could be a month's time. Then Burnham's got to win the by-election, at which point Starmer could turn around and go, fantastic, Andy, you're back in Parliament. Here's a cabinet job for you.
Is Burnham going to turn that down and launch a leadership election on day one? You know, it could have bought Starmer a load of time. Wes might have still gone for him anyway, but still it would have complicated the picture. Who knows? Maybe that option is not...
entirely closed you know there is as ever in politics there are sort of you know temporary alliances which can be fought and secured and who knows that might actually work weirdly for Burnham and Starnbrook this time and I do notice there's been some reporting which says that a source to close to Andy Burnham is suggesting that there is an imminent announcement that of a Greater Manchester seat.
This is only half an hour ago. Source indicates an announcement would likely be either today or tomorrow. And if that is true, then again, Starmer's going to have a choice to make. Does he open up a war on yet another front against the Burnham lot? Which looks terrified. Which then really does burn through his options, or does he, as I say...
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Chapter 8: How do the cabinet's reactions reflect the party's internal conflicts?
You don't want Burnham to be basically walking to number 10 and that's what it would be. So how do they, do they coalesce around one single challenger? Do they basically make it impossible for him to win that by-election? I don't know, but I think there are, you know, if you're Starmer now, you're thinking any of these sort of perilous questions are worth playing for time.
Well, indeed. I mean, the only thing that I think that there would have ever been anything quite like it, is you have to go all the way back to the 60s and you had a guy called Patrick Gordon Walker who unexpectedly loses his seat in 1964. Labour Party basically manipulates a by-election to come along to try and put him in and he loses it.
He loses it because, you know, the voters don't necessarily like the feeling of kind of being played. That said, Burnham, and this is why I think it would be a great play for Starmoor, which is you go, look Andy, if you think you can do it, Take it away, mate. You know, and that either neutralises him, because, of course, if Burnham were to go for it and lose, that is it.
That's Andy Burnham's political career over. Now, maybe Starmer gets blamed for that. Who knows? But ultimately, that's the that's the roll of the dice. And I suppose for Burnham, it's not that much of a risk, because if you take it as read, which we must, that he wants to be prime minister at any cost, this is the only way for him to do it. Right.
So it's really, yes, he may end up being humiliated by losing that by-election, but it is the only route back to Parliament. You're right, Emily.
We'll have never seen anything like it because we would never have seen a by-election where quite literally the electors, the 70,000, 80,000 electors of that seat will have the opportunity to basically decide whether this guy becomes prime minister or not. It will be historic first.
I mean, just to go back to your comparison with Boris Johnson, I guess the point with Boris Johnson was he left no doubt in anyone's mind that he wanted to be prime minister. I mean, what was it from the age of about four? You know, I think... And he did all this, you know, if the ball comes, blah, blah, blah, the back of the scrum, blah, blah, blah. But essentially, we were never in any doubt.
David Cameron was never in any doubt that Boris was constantly trying to, Boris Johnson was constantly trying to target his job. I think this time round, what is complicated is that in both Burnham and West Streeting, you have... It's weirdly more of a timidity, right? They don't quite have that brashness to just smack through anything in their way and say, I'm seizing the crown, it's mine.
And, you know, it'd be really interesting to see at 2.35 whether Wes Streeting goes for it today, because if he doesn't. It's not going to happen tomorrow. Tomorrow's the King's speech. And if Burnham really has got something sorted for the next couple of weeks, then that's kind of it.
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