Beyond Moral Injury with Lisa Rosenbaum, MD
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Hey everyone, I hope you're having a wonderful spring. In the spirit of renewal, I wanted to share something new that we've been working on. It's called The Nocturnous Plus, our new subscriber-only feed. With a subscription, you'll get access to the Nocturnous After Hours, a monthly bonus series featuring original conversations between me and our executive producer Ali Block. Along with discounts on our new merch and access to all of our episodes in one place. To give you a taste of what it's like, here's a clip from our very first After Hours episode, where Allie and I talk about the ups and downs of being the doctors in our own families.
It was my first experience where a healthcare provider was sort of using lines on me that I knew. So the biggest thing was he was trying to transfer my dad out of the neuro ICU. And I was trying to argue that he was not ready to go to the floor. And I'm sure you're very familiar with this line. This ICU doc said what we say to patients in the hospital all the time, which is, you know, it's really much safer for your dad to be somewhere else. He could get an infection, he could get a DVT. And I was just like, don't pull that with me. I know those lines.
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I'm Emily Silverman and you're listening to The Nocturnists. Medicine asks many things of the people who practice. Discipline, stamina, judgment, humility. But somewhere along the way, another question emerges with increasing urgency. How do we care for the people doing the caring? Today's guest is Dr. Lisa Rosenbaum, a cardiologist at Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center, assistant professor at Harvard Medical School, and national correspondent for the New England Journal of Medicine. Through her essays and podcasting, Lisa has become one of Medicine's most provocative and thoughtful public voices, writing about everything from physician well-being to primary care, trust, and the uneasy relationship between science and society.
In our conversation, Lisa and I talk about the physician burnout movement, the limits of self-care culture, and the meaning that can still be found in difficult work. We also explore the legacy of Lisa's grandfather, a physician writer whose life helped shape Lisa's perspective as a storyteller and a caregiver. I hope you enjoy this conversation as much as I did. But first Take a listen to Lisa, reading from one of her essays in the New England Journal, Beyond Moral Injury.
At some point amid peak pandemic burnout, I came across a Twitter thread by Kathleen McFadden. Then a chief resident at Massachusetts General Hospital. Expecting yet another depiction of the frustrations of our working lives, I skimmed her description of a busy morning with several new patients, one of whom was so preoccupied by having forgotten her milk duds that she couldn't give much history. The milk duds kept me reading. As any writer knows, a story can't include that sort of detail without returning to it.
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